Plague of Somali pirates continues. 5 ships taken over the weekend.

[MOBIUS]

Hey, those pirates have just seized another one of your ships - man your Navy is ****...

[The Mad Monk]

They know it's safe now.

[Wezil]

Except why would they transport such waste through the Suez canal and dump it in shallow populated amd heavily trafficed coastal regions where effects are bound to be discovered instead of, say, in the far more remote and deep central Atlantic where you are lucky if you even see another ship every other day?

Perhaps it is along the way? How would you know who dumped it? I doubt they are putting return addresses on the barrels.

Its fiction, and bad fiction at that.

Perhaps, but it is plausible.

VAST barrels eh? What exactly constitutes a VAST barrel?

Really, really, really big barrels?

[Wezil]

I thought that the reason for the Navy was to protect the sea lanes. And they don't even know what to do?

It looks like the wrong group of professionals was sent.


That said, I can understand the reluctance of somali pirates to surrender to american forces. I wouldn't want to end up in a black ops prison somewhere for the next decade.

[DinoDoc]

I don't understand the reluctance of the CnC to let the military do its job here.

[Winston]

Well, Somalia is right next to Kenya. Maybe it's someone he knows.

[David Floyd]

The problem is that we're talking about more than a million square miles of ocean here, and lots of legitimate fishermen. It's too much space to patrol. I've wondered whether it would be possible to use drones to monitor the Somali coast. I think they'd only have to monitor less than a thousand miles of coast, maybe even considerably less. If they could keep at least 20 drones in the air off the coast at all times, each drone patrolling less than 50 miles of coast I think they'd be able to track everything leaving and entering those areas.

Yes, I know. I'm not saying the Navy can stop all piracy, I'm just saying that if we execute each and every pirate immediately after spotting them, that should serve to deter the pirates we can't always get to.

che,

There are many major problems with your article, but let's just focus on the first four that popped into my head:

1)The Royal Navy comparison is asinine. No one is impressing Somalians into anyone's navy or merchant marine. The idea that they are taking to piracy to survive may be somewhat correct in some cases, but it isn't the level that your article is pointing out, which leads me to my second point:

2)If the West really wanted to dump nuclear waste into the sea off Somalia, and steal Somalia's food supply, we didn't exactly have to wait for the collapse of Somalia's government to do so. What exactly was Somalia ever going to do about it? Nothing?

3)Your article claims that this "volunteer coast guard" was simply trying to stop point 2 from occurring and collect taxes. Since point 2 is obviously fiction, what about this one? Well, I think it's 100% correct! The pirates ARE trying to collect money from the various nations who ship through the area. That's why they are taking over ships and holding people hostage for ransom. In other words, piracy This leads me to my final point...

4)**** you. You may hate the West, and you may feel, or want to feel a certain solidarity with poor people worldwide, but that's no excuse for posting material SUPPORTIVE of Somalian pirates who are holding hostages, extorting millions of dollars from various shipping companies, and who have killed several hostages already. I don't care what the impressment practices of the Royal Navy were, I don't care about the state of the government of Somalia, and I certainly don't care about the motives of the pirates. Nor, I think, does 99.9% of the rest of the world. The fact of the matter is, they're pirates, and if don't deal with them decisively and soon, it's only going to provide negative reinforcement for pirates in other areas of the world - for example, the heavily trafficked sea lanes through the Indonesian archipelago. The only way to decisively deal with these pirates is to not allow them to drag out these hostage scenarios. We should be shooting them on site, we should be landing Marines at known pirate havens and burning the waterfronts to the ground, and when known associates of pirates echo their demands in the world media, we should be arresting these people as accomplices.

If we make piracy unprofitable, piracy has to stop. You don't see too many kidnappings for ransom in the United States anymore, now do you? Nope, the FBI made it hugely unprofitable years ago.

[Wezil]

Pat - It seems other sources speak of illegal dumping (and fishing) as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7740417.stm

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...mVc5McYV-Q(and many others)

(and many others)

If it is fiction, it is popular fiction.

[Whoha]

Those sources are quoting Somalis who are making those claims.

[Wezil]

And?

Would you prefer finns?

[SlowwHand]

Yes. I would prefer finns.

[KrazyHorse]

Wezil, while I don't doubt that there is probably behaviour by foreign vessels off the Somali coast which would be considered illegal and stopped near most other coastlines, how does that in any sense justify the seizure of random vessels and crews for ransom?

Why do you feel the need to morally equate the two?

[Wezil]

I understand Whoha is questioning credibility, but I expect there aren't many people besides somali's to report these things. If dumping were happening off the coast of norway then I suspect it would be norwegians making the reports...

I'm still not arguing this behaviour is happening, just that it is plausible. The sources and arguments saying it is so are better than I have heard from the other side. It would be proving a negative territory for me except for the evidence found washed up after the tsunami.

[Whoha]

And?

Would you prefer finns?

people that don't think cellphone calls cause body parts to fall off would indeed be a plus, but also evidence would be good. Unfortunately due to pirate activity getting said actual evidence would be problematic.

and our ship that they attempted to pirate was 300 miles out, IE not stealing their fish or dumping nuclear waste on their shores.

[Wezil]

Wezil, while I don't doubt that there is probably behaviour by foreign vessels off the Somali coast which would be considered illegal and stopped near most other coastlines, how does that in any sense justify the seizure of random vessels and crews for ransom?

Why do you feel the need to morally equate the two?

Nice try.

No, I do not find this to be justification for seizing random vessels and demanding arbitrary ransom.

I'm still waiting for the US navy to blow the crap out of the pirates they are watching.