Circumcision Just Keeps Getting Better!!!

[Docfeelgood]

To be clear, the reason why most pediatricians do NOT recommend circumcision is BECAUSE the potential complications and health problems resulting from circumcision are more prevalent and severe than not being circumcised at all. Further still, a friend of mine in med school tells me that most of the problem with uncircumcised children comes down to simple hygiene issues: their dad was circumcised and thus was never taught proper hygiene, who in turn never taught his kids.

This is a load of crap!
(maybe true to a country that does not circumcise it's populace.)
Most uncircumcised men is just a family tradition based on misinformation and superstition.

[Asher]

How is excess loose skin going to cause a bent penis?
(maybe he should change hands?)

Do you actually know how circumcisions are performed? Do you know how the skin heals? Do you understand what that ring-like thing is on your penis? Do you understand what happens if it is cut and heals a bit crooked? There's goin to be more resistance on one side vs the other.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Appendix?

There's also a growing body of medical evidence to suggest that the appendix does have a useful function. It's an out-of-the-way breeding ground to keep useful gut bacteria cultures away from the main digestive peristalsis.

That way, if something goes really wrong in your system and something wipes out all the bacteria in your main digestive tract, the appendix has some backup cultures with which to repopulate your intestines quickly.

Same theory holds with the tonsils.

Although mechanically speaking, both tonsils and appendix can develop problems, requiring their removal.

[Asher]

This is a load of crap!
(maybe true to a country that does not circumcise it's populace.)
Most uncircumcised men is just a family tradition based on misinformation and superstition.

What?

Circumcision was the majority 50 years ago in Canada. It's a distinct minority now.

In the 70s and 80s, doctors in Canada started strongly recommending against circumcision and as a result, most newborns were not circumcised.

As a result, most fathers were circumcised with uncircumcised sons and there was a lot of ignorance around it as a result.

And, ironically, it is circumcision that is a family tradition based on misinformation and superstition. No medical association in the western world medically recommends circumcision for newborns. They've continually restated the opposite: that they do not recommend it. But a majority of boys in American continue to get circumcised. Why? Family tradition and superstition.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Oh, and I've dated US men and UK men. The former are usually cut. The latter are usually not.

I prefer roundheads over cavaliers, myself. It just feels generally cleaner.

[Docfeelgood]

Do you actually know how circumcisions are performed? Do you know how the skin heals? Do you understand what that ring-like thing is on your penis? Do you understand what happens if it is cut and heals a bit crooked? There's goin to be more resistance on one side vs the other.

Yes, I have had many male patient who were circumcised.
no complaints, THEY ALL stated they if they had known when they were younger they would have had it done sooner.

Do you understand what that ring-like thing is on your penis?

Could you be more specific.

Do you understand what happens if it is cut and heals a bit crooked?

OMG! Only a third rate surgeon in a third world country could mess up a simple procedure as a circumcision.

[Docfeelgood]

What?

Circumcision was the majority 50 years ago in Canada. It's a distinct minority now.

In the 70s and 80s, doctors in Canada started strongly recommending against circumcision and as a result, most newborns were not circumcised.

As a result, most fathers were circumcised with uncircumcised sons and there was a lot of ignorance around it as a result.

And, ironically, it is circumcision that is a family tradition based on misinformation and superstition. No medical association in the western world medically recommends circumcision for newborns. They've continually restated the opposite: that they do not recommend it. But a majority of boys in American continue to get circumcised. Why? Family tradition and superstition.

Sounds like BS from the government to save money to me

[Docfeelgood]

Oh, and I've dated US men and UK men. The former are usually cut. The latter are usually not.

I prefer roundheads over cavaliers, myself. It just feels generally cleaner.

[Asher]

Yes, I have had many male patient who were circumcised.
no complaints, THEY ALL stated they if they had known when they were younger they would have had it done sooner.

Do you really need me to explain the psychology behind that?

Could you be more specific.

The circumcision scar.

OMG! Only a third rate surgeon in a third world country could mess up a simple procedure as a circumcision.

It happens in the USA...there's been tons of lawsuits about it as well.

http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/horror/horror.shtml

Journal of Urology (Baltimore), vol 153, no 3 part I (March 1995: pp 778-779) states that the rate of accidents is from 1.5% to 15%.

- The programme, "It's a Boy," to be screened on Channel 4 this month, includes graphic footage of a circumcision in the Midlands that went disastrously wrong. The 8-day-old baby, circumcised without anaesthetic by a rabbi who is not a doctor, is seen bloodied and screaming in agony during the operation. When it was clear things were going wrong, the rabbi demanded the crew stop filming, but they secretly recorded what followed. The boy developed an infection and ended up in intensive care being pumped with antibiotics and kept alive by oxygen and drips.
The film -- the work of Victor Schoenfeld, the Jewish father of a circumcised son -- also presents details of 2 babies who died as a result of circ and contains an interview with the mother of a third who almost bled to death. It reveals cases of permanent genital disfigurement, claiming that, at a conservative estimate one in 50 circumcisions leads to serious complications. The impact of the film, which also shows Muslim circumcisions, will be intensified by Ch. 4's decision to show it without commercial breaks. --The Observer, London, 3 Sept 1995 Circ Info Network 951011

- ediatrics. 92(6):794-9, 1993 Dec.
The Inconspicuous Penis. Authors: Bergeson PS., Hopkin RJ., Bailey RB Jr., McGill LC., Piatt JP. Department of General Pediatrics and Urology, Phoenix Children's Hospital, AZ.
Abstract OBJECTIVE: To describe the etiology and management of the group of abnormalities referred to as the inconspicuous penis. DESIGN: Analysis of 19 cases seen over a period of 2 years by chart review. SETTING: Children's hospital in a major metropolitan area. PATIENTS: Nineteen boys referred to two pediatric urologists over a period of 2 years with penises that appeared abnormally small, but on palpation and measurement, were found to have a normal shaft with a normal stretched length. Diagnoses included were buried penis, webbed penis, and trapped penis. Patients ages ranged from 1 week to 13 years. FINDINGS: There were eight patients (42%) with trapped penis, and all were complications of circumcision (at age 1 week to 7 months). --trapped-penis

- ..in late July a 5-year-old boy died after a routine circumcision. Jeremie Johnson went into a coma and died a week after his parents authorized the removal of life support. Jose Tovar, MD, an anesthesiologist at Doctors Airline Hosp. in Houston, where the circumcision was performed, has resigned in connection with the incident. Circ Info Network 950922

- During the course of the circumcision, Dr. Tam, a pediatrician, amputated approximately 30% of the distal glans penis and transected the glandular urethra. A less than successful attempt was made to reattach that which had been excised. The Plaintiff (an infant) has undergone 4 corrective surgeries and requires at least one further surgery at this time. Circ Info Network 950107

- Allen A. Ervin was born in July 1985 and had been on life support since December 1985, when his brain was damaged from oxygen deprivation during circumcision.
The Anesthesiologists who attended to Allen during the circumcision settled the case for $435,000 and agreed to lifetime payment of his medical bills.
He died at Spartanburg Regional Medical Center on Wednesday, three weeks before his 7th birthday. noharmm99

- My son, Jacob, was born normal and healthy at Providence Hospital in Anchorage Alaska in 1986, he was routinely circumcised on his second day of life. A few days later, we brought Jacob back to the hospital because an infection had developed at the circumcision site. A decision was made by his pediatrician to hospitalize him and administer antibotics. The next morning, he began to have seizures that went untreated. Twenty-six hours after entering the hospital, he stopped breathing during a massive seizure. As a result my son suffered profound brain damage. Today Jacob is almost ten years old, he requires 24 hour a day care as he will for the rest of his life. noharmm93

- NEW YORK (AP) -- A clinic has agreed to pay $1.2 million to an 8-year-old immigrant boy who was mutilated during a botched circumcision five years ago, his lawyer said.

The clinic, a doctor and the rabbi who performed the operation were being sued for causing "permanent shortening and disfigurement of the penis."

During the trial, experts testified that the mutilation would make sexual intercourse difficult when the boy reaches maturity, according to Wednesday's New York Post.

And it goes on...

[Docfeelgood]

Anything current on the "tons of lawsuits"?
What? another anti circumcision web site?

[Asher]

Are you seriously claiming that there's no recent complications in any circumcisions done in the USA?

This is what I mean about the hellbent delusions of circumcised men trying to justify it. It's beyond all reason. It's like a religion for you. Gotta have faith...

[Asher]

Anyway: http://health.usnews.com/blogs/on-me...both-ways.html

On Circumcision Debate, Studies Cut Both Ways
April 02, 2008 05:19 PM ET | Adam Voiland | Permanent Link | Print

A New Zealand study published in the Journal of Pediatrics adds yet another wrinkle to the acrimonious debate over circumcision. The study found that circumcision doesn't appear to protect men living in the developed world from certain sexually transmitted diseases, Reuters reports. Researchers at the University of Otago found that of 499 men they have followed since the 1970s, the same percentage of circumcised men and uncircumcised men—about 23 percent—developed bacterial and viral STDs such as chlamydia, genital warts, and herpes. The researchers didn't collect data on HIV, which is comparatively rare in New Zealand.

Most news in the last few years about circumcision has been dominated by the results of three randomized trials in African countries that found the procedure considerably reduces a man's risk of contracting HIV. In one of the studies, the risk was reduced by as much as 76 percent. Since then, public-health officials in some African countries have been scrambling to develop large-scale circumcision programs. The implications for Americans, however, remain murky. There are differences between the African and North American HIV epidemics, and the CDC has emphasized that benefits seen in the African trials don't necessarily translate to America.

U.S. News Health Editor Dr. Bernadine Healy, a former director of the NIH and the Red Cross, has written the procedure is nothing to fear, much to the chagrin of readers who argue that circumcision carries significant risk, as well as those who oppose circumcision on other grounds.

Future research may resolve the debate over circumcision, but, in the meantime, one thing remains crystal clear. For sexually active men—circumcised or not—it's plain stupid not to wear a condom. Yet even discussing condoms in sex ed classes has become a political football, as my colleague Deborah Kotz has reported.

Bottom line, fellows, is that party hats are still key, regardless of your circumcision status. Latex is best, but if you're allergic, plastic (polyurethane) condoms will do, according to the Mayo Clinic. Don't rely on lambskin, which doesn't protect against HIV. And when you're deciding whether to use a condom, don't forget there are plenty of people out there who don't realize they have an STD—or know they do but lie about it.

http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/hpv-genital-warts/news/20080403/thwart-genital-warts-dont-sleep-around

Uncircumcised Fared Better

Circumcision appeared to have an effect on rates of genital warts:

* 4 1/2%Â of circumcised men reported having genital warts
* 2.4% of uncircumcised men reported having genital warts

It's interesting that every time another ****ing shoddy Ugandan circumcision study gets published, there's all kinds of international press on it. But whenever more controlled studies based on actual data in the developed/western world is published which contradicts the Ugandan studies, they're buried in references on WebMD and the like...

[Docfeelgood]

Here is some facts from some medical web sites.

http://kidshealth.org/

http://familydoctor.org

What is circumcision?
During a circumcision, the prepuce or the foreskin, which is the skin that covers the tip of the penis, is removed. Circumcision is usually performed on the first or second day after birth. It becomes more complicated and riskier in infants older than 2 months and in boys and men. The procedure takes only about 5 to 10 minutes. A local anesthetic (numbing medicine) can be given to your baby to lessen the pain from the procedure.


Circumcised infants are less likely to develop urinary tract infections (UTIs), especially in the first year of life.

Circumcised men may also be at lower risk for penile cancer.

Circumcision may reduce the risk of sexually transmitted diseases. A man's sexual practices (e.g., if he uses condoms, if he has more than one partner, etc.) has more to do with STD prevention than whether or not he is circumcised.

Some people claim that circumcision either lessens or heightens the sensitivity of the tip of the penis, decreasing or increasing sexual pleasure later in life. But neither of these subjective findings has been proved.

Penile problems, such as irritation, inflammation, and infection, are more common in uncircumcised males. It's easier to keep a circumcised penis clean, although uncircumcised boys can learn how to clean beneath the foreskin once the foreskin becomes retractable (usually some time before age 5).



What are the risks of circumcision?
Like any surgical procedure, circumcision has some risks. However, the rate of problems after circumcision is low. Bleeding and infection in the circumcised area are the most common problems. Sometimes the skin of the newly exposed glans becomes irritated by the pressure of diapers and ammonia in the urine. The irritation is usually treated with petroleum ointment (Vaseline) put directly on the area. This problem will usually lessen after a few days.

[Naked Gents Rut]

It's interesting that every time another ****ing shoddy Ugandan circumcision study gets published, there's all kinds of international press on it. But whenever more controlled studies based on actual data in the developed/western world is published which contradicts the Ugandan studies, they're buried in references on WebMD and the like...

The African studies are obviously superior to the NZ one. Randomized experiments are the gold standard.

[FrostyBoy]

I prefer roundheads over cavaliers, myself. It just feels generally cleaner.

Damn! I had hopes for us!