Case study in Republican insanity: California to go belly-up?

[MrFun]

Direct democracy works fine as long as you have an educated public.

You have quite an imagination!

[Victor Galis]

Direct democracy works fine as long as you have an educated public. Direct democracy plus private financing means that really bad policies that favor the rich get passed.

It takes much more than education. The populace has to care about a lot of issues, and the society in question must be small enough for people have a reasonable chance to keep up with the important questions. Just being well-educated isn't enough in a complex modern society.

What do you base this 20%+ number on?

His irrational hate of the government and everyone that works for it.

[dannubis]

He himself included ?

[Thue]

White-collar crimes aren't crimes.

Isn't that how the US work? Look at Madoff who swindled for $50 billion, but was not put in jail before the trial on the condition that he did not try to hide his money. When he was caught trying to send jewelry worth $1million away he got a slap on the wrist, and was allowed to remain free! Imagine If I had stolen $50 billion in the bank, and was trying to send $1 million of it away while free on bail...

[Arrian]

Thue's got a point...

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

What exactly is the point of locking up someone like Madoff if you can be reasonably sure his assets won't disappear before he might be convicted?

Remember, we're not supposed to actually punish people until after conviction.

[Thue]

What exactly is the point of locking up someone like Madoff if you can be reasonably sure his assets won't disappear before he might be convicted?

Remember, we're not supposed to actually punish people until after conviction.

1) he had admitted his crime, so there is not that much doubt
2) note that $1 million worth of stuff was actually almost disappeared

[Patroklos]

What do you base this 20%+ number on?

My personal knowedge of how many government emloyees I could eliminate from my department and still get the work done. In the case of California, a reasonable expectation of organizational loss for money saving purposes without overwhelming those left with change.

I could actually eliminate many more, but baby steps

His irrational hate of the government and everyone that works for it.

Its broken, so fix it.

And yes I include the military in those cuts, primarily the officer corps actually.

[Victor Galis]

Isn't that how the US work? Look at Madoff who swindled for $50 billion, but was not put in jail before the trial on the condition that he did not try to hide his money. When he was caught trying to send jewelry worth $1million away he got a slap on the wrist, and was allowed to remain free! Imagine If I had stolen $50 billion in the bank, and was trying to send $1 million of it away while free on bail...

I suspect the innocent explanation for that is that if you violently robbed a bank, you might reasonably be a threat to other people, whereas at this point Madoff really isn't.

Its broken, so fix it.

And yes I include the military in those cuts, primarily the officer corps actually.

While I'm sure you could trim government payrolls by making it more efficient, a recession is the worst possible time to do it. If you had some sort of plan to take some of those people and reassign them to other duties, that would be ok.

[Kuciwalker]

1) he had admitted his crime, so there is not that much doubt

So in some cases it's okay to punish someone before they've been convicted?

2) note that $1 million worth of stuff was actually almost disappeared

And so presumably they took steps to make sure that doesn't almost happen again. None of which necessitates sending him to jail.

[DinoDoc]

I'm reasonably certain it wasn't the GOP that caused the deficit given the political climate in CA. One might conclude that it was the populace of CA that with thier proposition system who forced the state to spend money it doesn't have that were truely the insane ones.

[Zkribbler]

And so presumably they took steps to make sure that doesn't almost happen again. None of which necessitates sending him to jail.

If you punish someone who does something bad [like trying to secret monies after being released from jail because of a promise not to], then the bad behavior tends to not be repeated.

[Asher]

I'm reasonably certain it wasn't the GOP that caused the deficit given the political climate in CA. One might conclude that it was the populace of CA that with thier proposition system who forced the state to spend money it doesn't have that were truely the insane ones.

DinoDoc opposing proposition (8)

[DinoDoc]

DinoDoc opposing proposition (8)

Why limit it to only one? The entire prop system should go into the trash.

[DanS]

Why do they have such a large deficit?

The California economy is in the crapper. Meanwhile, the state has been spending beyond its means. Also, there's probably some problems with the tax base on which the state has been collecting taxes.

Most other states are required by their constitutions to balance their budgets every year, so they have had to respond more quickly with spending cuts than has California. Apparently, California has taken a more leisurely pace of cuts by borrowing.