Venezuela: Voters Repeal Presidential Term Limits

[Felch]

You just totally and pitifully contradicted yourself. I can't even respond with anything except to say that not everyone seems to care about nationalism like you do. Why should a peasant care?

Where's the contradiction?

[Kidlicious]

Where's the contradiction?

Communism limits economic growth and USSR turned Russia into a world power.

[Felch]

Despite the claims by Marc Cooper, Chavez had been making moves to diversify the country's economy. Insanely high oil prices only lasted a couple of years, hardly enough time to transform the economy.

Where do you find that? The press reports I've read have indicated that Venezuela is letting the rest of its economy stagnate into oblivion while relying on oil wealth to pay its bills.

I'm wondering if there are concrete policies in place that haven't yet shown results in statistics. I understand that the stats would be buggered by the high price of oil - so that even if the economy were being diversified, oil would still look bigger in raw numbers. Is that what you're saying?

[Felch]

Communism limits economic growth and USSR turned Russia into a world power.

Communism limits growth compared to capitalism. Compared to retrograde feudalism, it's a godsend.

Does that make sense? I'm pro-capitalist, but that doesn't mean that I can't see where Communism works. It worked well at bringing Russia into the modern world. Hell, Russians used to be a bunch of illiterate peasants. Half a century later they're beating America in the Space Race.

[Kidlicious]

Communism limits growth compared to capitalism. Compared to retrograde feudalism, it's a godsend.

Does that make sense? I'm pro-capitalist, but that doesn't mean that I can't see where Communism works. It worked well at bringing Russia into the modern world. Hell, Russians used to be a bunch of illiterate peasants. Half a century later they're beating America in the Space Race.

The Russian economy never would have grown like that if it were a capitalist system. There are plenty of capitalist economies that never grow like that. There is always a reason for economic growth. It's just not a given. The USSR grew because of forced diversification of the economy. That diversification was paid for with blood and tears of the poor, and they never drew the benefits unless you want to call beating the US into space a benefit, but then that's not an economic benefit.

[Kuciwalker]

This is surreal.

Another warning: guys, don't talk to Kid either. Been there done that.

[Solomwi]

Kuci, just go ahead and add a Kid/Ben warning to your sig. It will save you a lot of trouble down the road.

[Barnabas]

Che, Venezuela has been wasting a lot of money giving money to friendly countries like Bolivia, Ecuador, buying ****ty Argentina bonds.

I actually wish he were more soviet like and decided to make 100% venezuelan cars, that kind of stuff.
At least Peron got some nazi scientists and now Argentina exports nuclear research reactors to Australia.

Venezuela is Saudi Arabia with Che Guevara T Shirts

[Felch]

The Russian economy never would have grown like that if it were a capitalist system. There are plenty of capitalist economies that never grow like that. There is always a reason for economic growth. It's just not a given. The USSR grew because of forced diversification of the economy. That diversification was paid for with blood and tears of the poor, and they never drew the benefits unless you want to call beating the US into space a benefit, but then that's not an economic benefit.

Originally Posted by Felch
This question comes from the Venezuela thread.

Did the modernization and diversification of the Russian economy under the Soviet Union benefit the poor in Russia? I understand it's not an easy question to answer, but you're the best person here to ask.

If I understood your question correctly, then yes, the poor of Russian Empire benefited from the industralization carried out by the Soviet government.

Thanks for coming out Kid. It's been wonderful, but unfortunately, I think your time is up.

[chequita guevara]

Che, Venezuela has been wasting a lot of money giving money to friendly countries like Bolivia, Ecuador, buying ****ty Argentina bonds.

Giving money to the needy isn't wasting it, one. Two, doing so doesn't preclude building up your own economy. The point remains, however, that two or three years of insanely high oil prices isn't enough time to completely re-organize your economy.

[Kidlicious]

Thanks for coming out Kid. It's been wonderful, but unfortunately, I think your time is up.

You're so stupid it's incredible.

[Felch]

[Felch]

Chavistas have taken over the mayor's office

Here's an AP story showing just how much respect Chavez shows to political leaders who disagree with him.

Caracas Mayor Antonio Ledezma could literally see the writing on the wall after his election some two months ago: Supporters of President Hugo Chavez had spray painted graffiti reading 'Out With Ledezma!' across City Hall.

And it wasn't long before they got their way.

The anti-Chavez mayor now works from an undisclosed friend's office. His own office is locked, with police posted outside _ not far from Chavez backers who have occupied the civil registry and other municipal buildings to protest Ledezma's decision to cut them off the city payroll.

'He's not welcome here,' said 36-year-old Nelsy Rojas, who lost her job organizing neighborhood-based 'communal councils' when Ledezma refused to renew the contracts of about 500 organizers hired by former Mayor Juan Barreto, a Chavez ally.

Ledezma says city resources are too limited to pay council organizers. But the councils are a key element of Chavez's efforts to build a socialist-style community government, and Chavistas like Rojas insist their layoff was politically motivated.

'He wants to get rid of those who defend the revolution, and we cannot accept that,' she said.

According to Ledezma, the takeover began violently on the evening of Jan. 16, when dozens of armed Chavez supporters wearing ski masks stormed City Hall after shooting at the building and tying up security guards.

Former city workers have since forced their way into other buildings late at night, seizing additional offices. Federally controlled police made no move to stop them.

'It's all part of a government strategy aimed at sabotaging my administration,' Ledezma said in a telephone interview. 'Chavez doesn't want opposition mayors and governors to be successful and he's using these violent groups to undermine our efforts.'

Chavez remains popular in Venezuela: His allies won 17 of 22 gubernatorial races in elections on Nov. 23. But his opponents gained ground, especially in Caracas, where Ledezma won the mayor's office and other foes captured three of the city's four borough-like districts.

Ledezma, a gray-haired former congressman, governor and mayor of Caracas' Libertador district, has asked for federal help to remove the protesters. Chavez last year stripped the mayor's office of its 8,000-member police force _ in anticipation, some say, of an opposition win there _ and brought it under federal control.

But federal officials have refused to step in. Justice Minister Tareck El Aissami said police posted outside City Hall are protecting the building, but will not be used to remove protesters.

'That's not the federal government's responsibility. He should resolve that problem,' El Aissami said. 'The problem is that he has not wanted to face the workers.'

Ledezma, meanwhile, has moved the 400 employees that normally work at City Hall to other offices in downtown Caracas.

'I'm getting the job done despite the challenges,' he said.

If you want a summary, I'll say it again. Chavez is a megalomaniac douche.

[Kidlicious]

That article isn't about Chavez. It's about his supporters.

[Felch]

Well, Chavez controls the national police, and he hasn't had them expel his supporters, so yeah, it does have to do with him.