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He's also defended earmarks as inevitable in such a package.
No, he didn't. That's why you're not using a direct quote.
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No, he didn't. That's why you're not using a direct quote."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon -
So the AP is lieing?I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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Last edited by The Mad Monk; February 7, 2009, 14:30.No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.Comment
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So the AP is lieing?
Or more charitably, obtuse. It actually is not that infrequently wrong. But he never said that."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Originally posted by Ramo View PostOriginally posted by Ramo View Post
Then what do you think Obama's bolded direct quote from the AP was supposed to mean?
Around midweek, however, Obama began changing his tone. Democrats need not apologize or compromise further except on small items, he said.
Some critics, [Obama] said at Thursday's retreat, contend the bill "is full of pet projects. When was the last time that we saw a bill of this magnitude move out with no earmarks in it? Not one."
Ratcheting up the sarcasm, the president said: "So then you get the argument, 'well, this is not a stimulus bill, this is a spending bill.' What do you think a stimulus is?"
"That's the whole point," he said, as the audience hooted and applauded.
Obama warned Republicans not to "come to the table with the same tired arguments and worn ideas that helped to create this crisis." Americans, he said, "did not vote for the false theories of the past, and they didn't vote for phony arguments and petty politics."
"They sent us here to bring change," he said.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...1yqlwD966BRN80
I can only read that comment to mean either 1) "come on guys, deep down we all know that earmarks are inevitable" (highly likely given the context & audience), 2) "this bill won't be passed" (highly unlikely), or 3) "this bill will be unprecedented by not having earmarks like the historical bills to which I'm analogizing had" (possible...) Do you really think #3 is the best interpretation of what he said?
If it's #1 I appreciate Obama's honesty.
Last edited by Darius871; February 7, 2009, 15:32.Comment
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An "earmark" isn't the same thing as "spending that I don't care for." If you google "stimulus" and "earmarks," you get articles such as this:
When congressional leaders began to assemble the mammoth economic stimulus bill, top Democrats and the Obama administration decided that there would be no earmarks: no "special projects," no pork-barrel spending. In so doing, they gave up some control over how the money is spent, leaving the decision to public servants around the country.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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In theory and publicity, the package is “earmark free.” But it contains dozens of narrowly defined programs that send money to specific areas or cater to special interests, despite President Barack Obama’s pledge to pass “an economic recovery plan that is free from earmarks and pet projects.”I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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As I said, an earmark has a specific meaning. What you claimed is not true."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I know what earmark means, and I know that the original bill (arguably) included no earmarks (technically), and I never said anything to suggest otherwise. Obama's the one who made that comment implying that earmarks are inevitable, not me. That means either 1) he perceives some things in the present bill to be localized enough to be reasonably classifiable as earmarks or 2) he expects that earmarks will be tacked on at some time in the future as a quid pro quo to get bipartisan support on the hook. You'll note that either case is inconsistent with his previous pledge, not that there's anything wrong with that...Originally posted by Ramo View PostComment
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Obama's the one who made that comment implying that earmarks are inevitable, not me.
No, that's your interpretation of what he said. Which is an odd conclusion given that the bill was specifically constructed to exclude earmarks (even if some of the spending is sufficiently localized to constitute "pork"). Obama was gloating that there weren't any earmarks in the legislation. As he said, "not one.""Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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From Dino's own article:
By far the bulk of the stimulus spending will be doled out through agencies like the Department of Transportation or programs such as Medicaid and food stamps that use existing formulas. That brings some accountability to road and bridge projects, for example, which typically go through a state process that determines which should get funded first. Transit money, too, is allotted by formula."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Sure it is, that's why I asked what your interpretation would be. Glad to know we're on the same page that it's entirely subjective and the AP is therefore not "wrong."Originally posted by Ramo View Post
We won't know until the final product is passed anyway.
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Ramo: What would you call dozens of narrowly defined programs that send money to specific areas or cater to special interests? Because those sound suspiciously like earmarks/pork spending to me. Or to paraphrase the great bard Shakespeare, "That which we call an earmark. By any other name would stink just as much."I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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Honestly, who cares about the pork? This stimulus could be completely pork-free (
) and it would still be a bad idea. We're about to spend ~$800 billion on a stimulus that probably won't work, especially given that a quarter of the spending won't even happen in time to have a stimulus effect. Combined with TARP and the other bailouts, this amount of spending will push the national debt to unprecedented levels. This is extremely questionable policy that's being rammed through Congress using the politics of fear. Given these facts, asking questions and dissenting against this rush to spend is the patriotic thing to do.
It's undeniable that the "foundations" of Keynesianism are still very much with us. They remain, in fact, the key conceptual framework through which we understand the economy, despite many dents from various Nobel-winning critics over the years. But it's also true that there's pretty thin evidence that a Keynesian stimulus of this size and this speed will work. Assuming the stimulus bill is passed in the coming hours, we are about to engage in a giant historical experiment. And we are the guinea pigs.
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Glad to know we're on the same page that it's entirely subjective and the AP is therefore not "wrong.
Everything in language is subjective. That doesn't make every interpretation legitimate. Whether the AP made a deliberate lie or they were obtuse, I'm not sure. But they were wrong.
Or to paraphrase the great bard Shakespeare, "That which we call an earmark. By any other name would stink just as much."
An earmark has a specific meaning associated with it. There's some narrowly tailored spending in the bill, but as the article makes clear the vast majority of it is going through competitive channels."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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