Birth control stimulates the economy?

[Dinner]

It's a good thing we recently had an election where the country roundly rejected Republican ideas about how to run the economy. Why Obama is even giving them 40% of the stimulus plan is beyond me since Republican votes are not needed.

[Ramo]

the package as a whole seems to work out to around 100K$+ for each job it claims it to create or save which seems like a huge waste of resources

The CBO estimates an output gap of a couple trillion dollars over the next two years. We'd extraordinarily be lucky if it can be plugged by only $825 billion. The stimulus should probably be significantly bigger.

[Patroklos]

Anyone want to guess what Oerdin's reaction would have been in a Republican had stated that?

[DinoDoc]

the package as a whole seems to work out to around 100K$+ for each job it claims it to create or save which seems like a huge waste of resources

The CBO estimates an output gap of a couple trillion dollars over the next two years. We'd extraordinarily be lucky if it can be plugged by only $825 billion. The stimulus should probably be significantly bigger.

The best estimates I've seen point to saving and/or creating 4 million jobs much cheaper to give a randomn sample of 4 million poor people 75k$ or more realistically extending unemployment coverage and I've yet to see any real evidence that developing an edifice complex serves to actually stimulate the economy given the example of Japan.

Hell I'm not even opposed to infrastructure improvements in general but the nature of these projects makes them ill suited to the short term stimulus needs that are likely to be a concern of lawmakers atm. Which makes them poor things to be included in a stimulus package imo.

[Theben]

Why Obama is even giving them 40% of the stimulus plan is beyond me since Republican votes are not needed.

My guess is so he can say he offered bipartisanship to fix the problems and can point at Repubs for shaking it off. Then they'll do whatever they want, sans republican input.

[Dinner]

Let's hope that's true.

[Dinner]

Anyone want to guess what Oerdin's reaction would have been in a Republican had stated that?

Let's face it even John McCain said the election was decided on economic policy and that he lost because people preferred Obama's economic policy. With that as the central issue it only makes sense that we actually use the economic policy the people voted for in a massive blow out election. That means tax cuts for the middle class and direct spending to create jobs and improve the nation. That Republicans are endlessly whining that it isn't trickle down tax cuts for the rich is just... well, rich.

[Ramo]

The best estimates I've seen point to saving and/or creating 4 million jobs much cheaper to give a randomn sample of 4 million poor people 75k$ or more realistically extending unemployment coverage and I've yet to see any real evidence that developing an edifice complex serves to actually stimulate the economy given the example of Japan.

Hell I'm not even opposed to infrastructure improvements in general but the nature of these projects makes them ill suited to the short term stimulus needs that are likely to be a concern of lawmakers atm. Which makes them poor things to be included in a stimulus package imo.

The stimulus package is much more than infrastructure. You've got food stamps, COBRA, aid to state and local governments (which have limited means to borrow) in education, law enforcement, and health care, a large FICA tax cut, etc. Unemployment insurance, for example, is a large part of the stimulus (~$40 billion). The problem is that you start to get diminishing returns at some point.

And it makes sense to get a lot of the infrastructure spending that you were going to do anyways in right now, when you're not crowding out private investment.

[Felch]

The stimulus package is much more than infrastructure. You've got food stamps, COBRA, aid to state and local governments (which have limited means to borrow) in education, law enforcement, and health care, a large FICA tax cut, etc. Unemployment insurance, for example, is a large part of the stimulus (~$40 billion). The problem is that you start to get diminishing returns at some point.

And it makes sense to get a lot of the infrastructure spending that you were going to do anyways in right now, when you're not crowding out private investment.

That's a very good point about getting the infrastructure built (or at least bid) now. In busier economic times, construction costs rise along with the costs of materials, shipping, labor, and all the other inputs. Also estimating departments are under more pressure to bid whatever work comes along, and to offer better prices than they would when business is good.

I'm personally against spending our way out of this crisis. It seems like we found ourselves in a hole and decided to dig all the way to China. I think that we need to change how we behave economically. Savings rates need to increase, people who recklessly speculated on crazy schemes deserve to feel a pinch, and our economy as a whole has to shift away from a consumption ethos. However, smarter people than me seem to feel otherwise, and if they feel that priming the pump is necessary, then we should at least prime the pump with work that will reap benefits in the future.

[Dis]

god I hate democrats. Why in the hell did I vote for Obama? I blame Bush for this.

[Dinner]

You realize the medicare provisions (designed to help states) have been removed from the bill, right? Obama wanted to be bipartisan so he killed a good provision to satisfy Republican whiners.

[Patroklos]

Let's face it even John McCain said the election was decided on economic policy and that he lost because people preferred Obama's economic policy.

Thats nice Oerdin, but this is PELOCI'S statment and she is the leader of the a Congress with a most extrordinary disapproval rating.

With that as the central issue it only makes sense that we actually use the economic policy the people voted for in a massive blow out election.

Obama's platform included handing out contraception to keep the poor people from breeding?

I think you need to keep up to date on the presidential press releases

That means tax cuts for the middle class and direct spending to create jobs and improve the nation. That Republicans are endlessly whining that it isn't trickle down tax cuts for the rich is just... well, rich.

Perhaps you are confused as to what thread you in?

[Ramo]

Thats nice Oerdin, but this is PELOCI'S statment and she is the leader of the a Congress with a most extrordinary disapproval rating.

Pelosi's viewed far more favorably than Boehner or McConnell.

http://dailykos.com/weeklypoll/2009/1/22

[Patroklos]

Pelosi's viewed far more favorably than Boehner or McConnell.

Irrlevant to Oerdin's point, Obama has a mandate and Pelosi does not, and Obama doesn't have anything to do with Pelosi's comment by his own spokesmen's admssion. Let me repeat the relevant question for you...

Anyone want to guess what Oerdin's reaction would have been in a Republican had stated that?

[Dinner]

You've been answered. Repeating the question will just lead to the same answer. Also it was funny watching you get pwnd by Ramo when you tried to bring up approval ratings.

Dems in Congress 41% approve of the job they're doing; Republicans in Congress only 21% approve of their job performance. Congress does have low approval ratings but it seems that it's mostly Republicans who are having trouble. The question is when nearly 80% of the population knows/believes the Republican approach is dead wrong why give in to them? They are still trying to force their failed ideology on everyone. I say screw them and pass a good stimulus bill without them because Republicans are still insisting of continuing the same failed policies which created the crisis.

Clinton's best budget was the 1993 budget which not a single Republican voted for but it set the stage for the future surpluses because it cut military spending, closed bases, and raised taxes on the wealthy. That's what created the surpluses but Republicans claimed it would create a virtual depression. What followed was 8 years of the strongest and most wide spread growth & prosperity in US history. If Republicans just want to dig in and try to obstruct everything then fine, who needs them?