Nazi-named children taken from parents

[Darius871]

Come on... considering what they named their kids, it is inconceivable that they did something else wrong that endangered their kids' upbringing?

Hey captain buzzkill, this topic's totally boring without the unfounded assumption that it's because of the name. We might as well close the thread now.

Anyway, even if other reasons are purported in the future (squalid conditions, physical abuse, toilet paper not placed in proper overhand fashion, etc.), odds are child services wouldn't have even looked into this family and found out were it not for their previous notoriety, to say nothing of how the notoriety would probably add a few notches of bias to what is already a very discretionary process.

[Guynemer]

Come on... considering what they named their kids, it is inconceivable that they did something else wrong that endangered their kids' upbringing?

No doubt.


As an aside, while a resident here in Columbus I saw a couple kids with the last name "Hitler" for a check-up. I mean, seriously... whichever parent has that last name, why wouldn't you give the kids the other one?

[Elok]

I suggest a compromise: parents can name their kids whatever they want, but from age five onwards the child has the right to get a court-ordered "hard nickname" put next to his/her real name on all lists and read in its place by adults so as to avoid getting the **** beat out of him/her by the other kids.

[Darius871]

to avoid getting the **** beat out of him/her by the other kids.

Hey on the bright side, if he goes to prison (oh who am I kidding, when he goes to prison) he'll get his due respect.

[Zevico]

It's also interesting to see that DD has no problems with the State taking children away, but has issues with simply renaming them.

Presumably because there's reason to. While a weird or offensive name is not of itself reason enough, I think it's a clue as to what these people get up to. Probably tipped off child services or something.

[PLATO]

Come on... considering what they named their kids, it is inconceivable that they did something else wrong that endangered their kids' upbringing?

Well...see. Now that is my question. The article is sufficently vague to make one wonder if it was just the names. If it was, then we have entered dangerous times. If it was more than that...meh...I would have to agree with Darius.

I was hoping that someone here might know more details.....

[Unimatrix11]

I find it totally irresponsible of the parants to name their children this way. Would you employ an ´Adolf Hitler´? Under two equal candidtes for a job i´d pick the other one, that´s for sure. It puts a burden on the kids. To do that as a parent is itself an offense. Since i deny the right of parents to hurt their kids, if not for a very good reason, i think it is indeed a matter of law and the state to prevent this from happening. In the case of names, this does not make an unacceptable interference into private life neccessary at all - esp. if the name is being reported, like here.

The parents should be given a certain time (say 4 weeks) to rename their kids in a proper fashion. If they wont, they´d risk the kids being ´forcefuly´ renamed. In addition they get paid a visit or two by state officials (and be informed of that), making sure they are not raising a horde of terrorists there. (Actual german law would be a lot harsher on that)

[Dr Strangelove]

Rename the town "Jerusalem Township". Make the customary greeting "Oy Vay!" Make the town symbol the yellow six-sided star.

[DinoDoc]

Naming those kids those names may conflict with the "Fighting Words" doctrine.

Are you drunk? I'm genuinely curious because I don't see how the two concepts connect.

Fake Boris: If it is just the name that aroused the ire of Children's Services, I'd have a problem with the government taking the children and would hope that they'd be returned to the parents soon if that were the case. I fail to see what that has to do with the question I asked you though about it not being any of the government's buisiness what parents name thier children.

[ColdWizard]

Well...see. Now that is my question. The article is sufficently vague to make one wonder if it was just the names. If it was, then we have entered dangerous times. If it was more than that...meh...I would have to agree with Darius.

I was hoping that someone here might know more details.....

Other news reports I looked up a few days ago indicated that the names were not the reason the children were taken, though no actual reason was given.

[Perfection]

I wonder how the government would go about renaming them...

[TCO]

Those names suck. Hang them kids high /TCO

1. Dude...I have you trained.

2. Subtle difference, but my first thought was if you can't name your kids ****heads what can you do? I mean they belong to you right? Next thing you know you're not going to be able to beat their tender asses.

[Darius871]

Are you drunk? I'm genuinely curious because I don't see how the two concepts connect.

Perhaps he could have worded it differently, but basically the fighting words exception to the 1st Amendment could be used as a justification for state intervention should the parents ever challenge an imposed name change. In other words the doctrine would not prohibit their name choice itself, but would allow the government to intervene if it decides that their choice will incite violence.

Of course all cases on the issue require an element of imminence, which is arguably lacking where the kids haven't even reached an age where their peers would have enough historical knowledge to be incited, and recent cases require that the insults be personally directed at the incitee rather than generally offensive, which isn't the case here, but who knows whether a court would just defer on this one.

Besides, the real legal issue wouldn't be prevention of incitement, but rather child services' extremely broad discretion on "best interests of the child." I don't think anybody seriously thinks these names wouldn't make the kids' lives both a living hell socially and physically endangering. For instance, I've read cases where even naming a child something as innocuous as one letter, a combination of numbers, non-statutory surnames, or even the new stepdad's surname could be constitutionally rejected by the state, just because it would lead to the child being ostracized in life. If names like that can be changed, you'd better believe something that'll get the kid's ass kicked can as well.

[GePap]

An article about this from the NY Times (thought I suspect DD might not be able to make himself read it - it being from the NY Times and all).

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/nyregion/20hitler.html?ref=nyregion

Naming Children for Nazis Puts Spotlight on the Father
By LISA W. FODERARO
Published: January 19, 2009
HOLLAND TOWNSHIP, N.J. — Heath Campbell invited the world to share his outrage when a nearby ShopRite supermarket refused to inscribe a cake with his son’s first and middle names — Adolf Hitler — for his third birthday last month.

Instead, outrage at his choice of names for his three children — Adolf’s younger sisters are Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie Campbell, after Heinrich Himmler, and JoyceLynn Aryan Nation Campbell — exploded on the Internet and in newspapers all over the world.

Mr. Campbell’s choices have prompted a debate over whether provocative names alone should be considered child abuse. The authorities removed the children from their parents’ care on Jan. 9., according to the local police. Kate Bernyk, a spokeswoman for the New Jersey Division of Youth and Family Services, said confidentiality rules prevented her from commenting on the case, but that the state would not remove a child based on a name.

So, it is unclear why they were taken from the apartment they rented in a gray two-family ranch on a forlorn stretch of road overlooking the Delaware River, on the Pennsylvania border, and a hearing scheduled for Thursday was canceled.

Laura Cohen, a clinical professor of law at Rutgers Law School who specializes in juvenile rights, said that, “Looking ahead, you could imagine the state making an argument that the ShopRite rejection is a precursor of things to come,” explaining that the concern would be that the children would be “subject to lifelong ridicule and harassment.”

But Ms. Cohen, who knows of a New York child named for a venereal disease, said: “The question of what you name your kids goes right to the heart of the zone of privacy around the parent-child relationship.”

The Campbells’ neighbors described a family living on the fringe, financially and socially. Mr. Campbell, 35, and his wife, Deborah, 25, do not work and receive disability payments for emphysema and neck pain, respectively. Their landlord, Larry Lippincott, who shares the two-family home, said the family is often up all night.

“I hear the kids playing at 2:30 in the morning and the TV on,” Mr. Lippincott said. “He told me he was a night person and didn’t like to do anything during the day.”

Mr. Lippincott, a truck driver, said Mr. Campbell went through a Confederate flag phase a few years ago, but was now into swastikas, which decorated the apartment and were etched in skull decals on his car.

Mr. Campbell, a collector of German combat knives, also wears Nazi-era boots and, according to Mr. Lippincott, likes to click his heels together. A neighbor, Robert Heckman, said Mr. Campbell had boasted to him about using government money to pay for his cigarettes. Mr. Lippincott said he had decided — before the cake incident — not to renew the Campbells’ lease when it expired in November because, he said, a relative they frequently argue with threatened to “firebomb the house.” He expects to begin eviction proceedings soon.

“They’re not destroying anything, the house is clean and they pay their rent on time,” he said. But, he added, “There comes a point when you say, ‘Enough is enough.’ ”

The Holland Township police chief, David Van Gilson, said that officers have answered noise complaints and domestic incidents at the apartment, but never received complaints of child abuse, although he said other agencies could have.

Chief Van Gilson speculated that information about the children’s treatment may have surfaced after Mr. Campbell sought publicity about the birthday cake incident from the local newspaper, the Express-Times, in Easton, Pa. “That was his whole purpose — to get sympathy for the cake — and it just snowballed from there,” he said. Indeed, blogs and newspaper Web sites have reported incendiary information about Mr. Campbell’s previous marriage, including a few comments from a woman who identified herself as his former mother-in-law and wrote that her daughter had to talk him out of naming one of their children Satan. Others wrote to say that, to their mind, the simple act of naming children after Hitler and Himmler constituted abuse.

“How in the world do these so-called parents expect these kids to survive in life with monikers like this?” wrote one reader of the Express-Times, which broke the story in mid-December. “The kids were doomed the day they were named.”

Melanie Campbell, who lives in Holland Township, has found her seemingly safe choice of names for her daughter, Heather, now causing problems because of its similarity to Mr. Campbell’s name. Her address and phone number popped up in Internet searches of Mr. Campbell, who does not have a home phone.

Mr. Campbell had at least two of the children’s names legally changed in recent months. He dropped his son’s original first name, Antonio (Adolf and Hitler had been the middle names), so he is now Adolf Hitler Campbell, and fixed his daughter’s birth certificate to correct the spelling of “Aryan.” (He has said that Hinler is the correct spelling of Himmler — that history books are wrong.)

The Campbells, who in recent days have stayed away from their home and could not be reached for comment, have offered different explanations in previous interviews about their interest in Nazi Germany. Mr. Campbell told the Express-Times that swastikas were “symbols of peace and balance,” while Mrs. Campbell asserted that a swastika “doesn’t really have a meaning.”

As for his children’s names, he said: “They’re just names, you know.” Acknowledging that the Nazis “were bad people back then,” Mr. Campbell said. “But my kids are little. They’re not going to grow up like that.”

More recently, Mr. Campbell has been quoted saying that he was changing his views on the Holocaust after watching the History Channel. “He did it,” he said, referring to Hitler. “It was cruel. But I didn’t name my son for the guy who killed all these people.” He added, “My son is going to learn to love. None of my kids are going to have a bone of hate in their body.”

Chief Van Gilson said that Mr. Campbell “broke down” when he learned that his children were being removed from his home. “He loves his kids — there are no ifs, ands or buts about that,” he said. “His kids to him are his future. As he told me, his kids are forever; wives aren’t.”

[DinoDoc]

Stop being like DaShi, GePap. I'd like to think such snipes are beneath you.