Suck it, Bush!

[Naked Gents Rut]

SCHIP will almost certainly be integrated into universal health care legislation later on this year

[DinoDoc]

Once more, the idea that a 61 cent/pack increase is going to eliminate the legal market for cigarettes is insane.

I never said that it would. Perhaps a definition of the term describing the type of tax the Dems have turned to would be helpful at this juncture: Sin Tax: A state-sponsored tax that is added to products or services that are seen as vices, such as alcohol, tobacco and gambling. These type of taxes are levied by governments to discourage individuals from partaking in such activities without making the use of the products illegal.

That's what I've been argueing. The revenues from this tax will not keep pace with the requirements of an expanded SCHIP assuming the tax fulfills its actual purpose. So why choose it even if we assume this forthcomming attempt at universal coverage doesn't go the way of Hillarycare?

[Jon Miller]

I think sin taxes really should be: "this costs this system so we are taxing it to make up for the costs it causes"

JM

[Naked Gents Rut]

IIRC, studies have shown that smoking actually saves the government on healthcare expenditures by killing people off early.

[Ramo]

The revenues from this tax will not keep pace with the requirements of an expanded SCHIP assuming the tax fulfills its actual purpose.

The "actual purpose" of the tax hike is to generate revenues for an SCHIP expansion. Whether it does so or not is an empirical, not semantic, question.

If the tax can't keep pace with increasing costs, that isn't particularly relevant. If costs increase, we can increase taxes accordingly (including adding other sources). And cost increase is a systematic problem, including Medicare and private insurers, which will also have to deal with the changing environment. Hence the push for a universal program that can control costs.

[SlowwHand]

Hence.

[DaShi]

IIRC, studies have shown that smoking actually saves the government on healthcare expenditures by killing people off early.

Which studies are these?

[DaShi]

Hence.

What's your opinion on this, Sloww? Which approach do you recommend?

[SlowwHand]

Keep raising taxes on tobacco. I don't think it will stop long term smokers, it will just give them less disposable income. That doesn't solve anything.
Let's say they quit. How does that solve anything? Now they've taxed cigarettes right out of circulation and all tax income is lost. Either way the government screws up

The government needs to go ahead and declare a loss in the war on drugs. Legalize and tax it. Then, they can think they'll do the same thing, until they're faced with the same quandry.

Governments seem intent on producing criminals.

[Ramo]

Hence.

Also.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Which studies are these?

Dutch researchers have confirmed what fat smokers have waited years to hear - that healthy people are actually a greater burden on the state, because they live longer and oblige the taxpayer to deal with the cost of "lingering diseases of old age like Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s".

That's according to the Netherlands’ National Institute for Public Health and Environment, which found that while "a person of normal weight costs on average £210,000 over their lifetime", a smoker clocks up just £165,000 and the obese run up an average £187,000 bill.

The team's findings, published in the Public Library of Science (PLoS), are based on modelling "three hypothetical populations from the age of 20, to see how much they would cost in medical bills throughout the different stages of their lives", the Telegraph explains.

The study states: “The underlying mechanism is that there is a substitution of inexpensive, lethal diseases towards less lethal, and therefore more costly diseases.”

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/05/healthy_tax_burden/

It's even a European study, perfect for a mindless Dem like yourself!

[fed1943]

So an European stuff cannot be good to America?
Be careful. Afros and Asians (btw they you call Latins are Asian too)
can take that and decide a cleaning.
Best regards,

[Naked Gents Rut]

Jesus. That didn't make a lick of sense.

[fed1943]

Wasn't I clear enough? Sorry.
If no European study can be good to America,
then your Constitution, that was studied by
Europeans (the Founding Fathers) can be good?
Best regards,

[Arrian]

So you don't think people have a responsibility to manage their own health and that the government has to do it for them?

Perhaps the government should manage your bank account too, since you aren't responsible enough to manage your own affairs.

Yeah, because people only get sick or injured because they mismanage their health.

Btw, I'm fine with expending some more effort at nutritional education. I'd probably focus it on the subset of the population that struggles most with obesity. Of course, that involves spending time & money on poor brown people so I doubt you'd approve...

As for your analogy, you may have noticed that I'm in favor of a certain amount of redistribution of wealth.

-Arrian