Taliban threatens to kill or acid attack Pakistani schoolgirls if they attend school

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Felch


There is a difference between being prepared to defend yourself from threats (bears or criminals or whatever), and throwing acid in somebody's face because they dared to go to school. The difference is that people have a right to defend themselves, while no one has the right to terrorize other people.

Always consider who is initiating the violence before you start making these moral equivalence arguments.

I think everyone thinks pouring acid in someone's eye is cruelty. I was thinking more of the eye-for-an-eye principle, the court used. I thought that was the most shocking fact... Many people even in our western world apply this principle (albeit in a less literal way) too: a man kills another person in cold blood => this makes him eligible for the death penalty.

Terrorizing other people can never be condoned of course, whatever culture we're speaking of. It's the methods by which each culture resolves its differences, the legal system etc. that can be discussed.

PS: guns are used to defend yourself, but you know that's not always true. In a culture that glorifies and covets guns it leads to abberations. Compare Americans with the Swiss or Israeli. The latter two are also relatively pro-guns iirc, but the murder rates are much lower. Anyway this is OT; it'll spawn another useless discussion. Just forget I brought it up

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Wezil


Do you have any ideas how to do this? The current plan (wrt Afghanistan) is a spectacular failure.

I don't have time to go into specifics, and I'm not an expert on the matter, but a military solution in Afghanistan is nigh impossible. I'd try to deprive them of their support in Pakistan for starters, because that's where their power base lies. A programme for some nation- and governance building near the Pakistan should be the key imo. That's where all the money should've gone to instead of Iraq.

[Chemical Ollie]

The Talibananas are just applying the good old Jewish laws in a more refined way. Why aren't you religious guys just hugging them?

[Sirotnikov]

Compare Americans with the Swiss or Israeli. The latter two are also relatively pro-guns iirc, but the murder rates are much lower.

people don't own guns privately, and they aren't sold easily.
you have to have a valid license, a reason to own it, and have to practice every year or 6 months (forgot which).

Had I stayed in the IDF longer I could have gotten a permit for a handgun for the service length, but not sure, since there was little reason for it.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
The Talibananas are just applying the good old Jewish laws in a more refined way. Why aren't you religious guys just hugging them?

You're welcome to support your statement regarding jewish law.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

people don't own guns privately, and they aren't sold easily.
you have to have a valid license, a reason to own it, and have to practice every year or 6 months (forgot which).

Had I stayed in the IDF longer I could have gotten a permit for a handgun for the service length, but not sure, since there was little reason for it.

Ah ok. I pulled that out of my ass then. But every Israeli is 'in theory' a reservist, right? I thought everyone there learns how to operate a gun or rifle.

[Berzerker]

Originally posted by Traianvs
I agree with you, but I'm just saying they don't know any better.

Do we know better? If so, then we aint pre-judging anything. They do know better, they aint born with that mentality. It takes quite a bit of religious and/or cultural brainwashing to produce monsters like that.

Compare this to me, being European, considering myself superior to Americans because I don't pack a gun and I don't carry a shotgun when I go out camping, like a good number of Americans would do.

Neither do most Americans, and in huge parts of this country it aint always too wise to go camping without a gun.

It goes without saying that taliban movement should be eradicated, of course. I'm only trying to mitigate the militaristic hatemongering

aint gonna happen, not by us anyway...

just givin ya **** for being Colbert's stereotypical liberal

[Berzerker]

Originally posted by Traianvs


I think everyone thinks pouring acid in someone's eye is cruelty. I was thinking more of the eye-for-an-eye principle, the court used. I thought that was the most shocking fact... Many people even in our western world apply this principle (albeit in a less literal way) too: a man kills another person in cold blood => this makes him eligible for the death penalty.

Yeah, if I murder someone anything less than the DP rewards me for my success. I'd be dead had my victim successfully defended themself. We may make that trade off to ensure we dont execute the innocent but that dont mean executing a murderer is wrong.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Traianvs
Ah ok. I pulled that out of my ass then. But every Israeli is 'in theory' a reservist, right? I thought everyone there learns how to operate a gun or rifle.

Every male learns how to basically operate an M-16 in basic training.

These are not easily available to the public though
Neither are RPGs, Tanks and other army equipment.

A military person signs his name vs. the gun serial number, and if the gun is lost or even stolen, faces incredibly harsh penalty. When I had an M-16 for duty, I would take it apart and hid the parts in different places across the apartment, so even if stolen it wouldn't be easily operable.

As I said, you need very complicated permits to own a gun as a civilian.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Berzerker


Do we know better? If so, then we aint pre-judging anything. They do know better, they aint born with that mentality. It takes quite a bit of religious and/or cultural brainwashing to produce monsters like that.

Meh, they don't know any better.

Long ago, that primitive mentality was widespread amongst white Christians too. The inquisition to name an obvious example. Humans, in my view, are very susceptible to outside influence. Not about good or evil, it simply is.

We fundamentally thinkdifferently from those people and our medieval ancestors. Why am I so called 'liberal'? Because my direct environment enabled me to be like that, because enough external stimuli changed my ways. Many people out there are raised with traditions such as obligatory burka's for women etc. I for one, wouldn't know any better if I was born there.

Btw: I remember I was - although trolling a bit - defending the death penalty way back in the summer of 2000 with MWHCII. I was a lil' kid back then though

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Traianvs


I don't have time to go into specifics, and I'm not an expert on the matter, but a military solution in Afghanistan is nigh impossible. I'd try to deprive them of their support in Pakistan for starters, because that's where their power base lies. A programme for some nation- and governance building near the Pakistan should be the key imo. That's where all the money should've gone to instead of Iraq.

Money for Pakistan? What do you think we have been doing the last number of years?

We bought the government in Pakistan (to the tune of billions of $$) and the people there are becoming increasingly radicalized. Didn't work.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Wezil


Money for Pakistan? What do you think we have been doing the last number of years?

We bought the government in Pakistan (to the tune of billions of $$) and the people there are becoming increasingly radicalized. Didn't work.

Ugh, promoting good governance doesn't equal giving the Pakistani government a ****load of money. The west and the US in particular clearly have a failing policy for Pakistan. Buying their leaders doesn't help. The insane amount of dollars that went to Iraq could have been spent on infrastructure, education and other amenities in Pakistan that the people would actually experience. That money could've gone to pay government workers and the military decent wages. It might've helped the middle class military officers in Pakistan to stop their support for the Taliban.
This war is all about image. In the end, the masses want stability and economical wellbeing, and they'll support whoever brings it along.


But of course, in light of their war on terror, the US is afraid of a democratically elected leader they cannot control, so they prefer buying off the same old clique of political/military leaders who have been running the country for ages.

[Zkribbler]

Re: Taliban threatens to kill or acid attack Pakistani schoolgirls if they attend school

Originally posted by aneeshm
The Prophet would be proud of the "chastisement" his faithful students - for does not Taliban merely mean "students"? - are delivering to the gender he called the majority in hell, and to schoolgirls specifically.

The Prophet would not be happy with the Taliban because they are not following his teachings. Although they call themselves Muslims, they are not. .They are murdering pigs.