GM & Chrysler on the Brink -- Part 3

[Kuciwalker]

It goes NOWHERE because the money doesn't exist in the first place. If the wages aren't cut then the money will end up coming from the taxpayers.

[Vanguard]

In normal economic times, GM does generate some small amount of income, you know.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DanS
An operating loss, but a net profit of some $550 million.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

It's interesting that that article said Toyota has an operating lose of $1.66 billion but didn't mention your after tax profit.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It goes NOWHERE because the money doesn't exist in the first place. If the wages aren't cut then the money will end up coming from the taxpayers.

That's doubtful. Whiny Republicans swore by the same garbage in 1979, that Chrysler was dead and was a waste of money, yet some how the tax payers made hundreds of millions off of those loans. Face facts. Republicans not only hate unions but they hate heavy industry because it is unionized. They've been wrong about everything. In fact they've been wrong so long about so many things it is amazing they can still find idiots like you who believe their lies.

It's always been about destroying unions for them and it will never be different. No matter how many times you trot out the same lies they're still lies.

[DanS]

That's because they swapped stories on that URL. A little initiative on your part would have found any number of other sources for the after-tax profit figure. Here's a representative story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/business/worldbusiness/23toyota.html

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Vanguard
In normal economic times, GM does generate some small amount of income, you know.

So what, a bailout for GM every time we hit a recession? May get a bit expensive.

Recessions tend to clear out of the inefficiencies in the market. The problem ain't that there is unfair competition or whatever, but that no one wants to buy American cars due to the crap reputation that these companies have received due to the utter **** they put out in the late 70s and early 80s. Brand reputation means something. Where is that lesson if the government keeps bailing out the industries too lobbied up to fail?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


So what, a bailout for GM every time we hit a recession? May get a bit expensive.

A better solution is to reform the laws which allow hedge funds to raid industrial companies. Heavy industry is a boom and bust cycle so, traditionally, companies hoard money from the good times to tide them over during the bad times. This means they have cash stock piles. Hedge funds then raid the industrial companies stealing all of their cash reserves. They buy stock and then agitate for the excess cash to be distributed as dividends and then dump the stock. They basically steal all the cash and then get out of town. This is exactly what happened to GM and Ford wasn't effected because the Ford family still owns the majority of Ford stock so they resisted the raid by hedge funds. That's why Ford is in good shape while GM isn't. GM got raided by hedge funds while the Ford Family successfully resisted the hedge funds.

Notice how hedge funds can't raid companies in Japan and Germany? Notice how those countries have laws preventing hedge funds from raiding industrial firms and stripping them of their rainy day funds? That's why Japanese and German companies don't get into such trouble of capital depletion while America companies do. By law those countries protect their industrial firms from the raiders. Morons like DanS claim the raiders are "liberating capital" while in reality they're destroying the real economy and killing good companies by stealing all of the money they'll need to survive the cyclical down turn. This is a problem with American laws.

[Dinner]

GM got raided in just such a fashion. It's $25 billion rainy day fund got stolen by hedge funds doing just that. It would never have needed a bailout except pieces of dog **** like DanS approved of the corporate raiders who deliberately kill healthy companies.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


At least he doesn't stoop to making personal attacks.

You were saying?

Originally posted by Oerdin
GM got raided in just such a fashion. It's $25 billion rainy day fund got stolen by hedge funds doing just that. It would never have needed a bailout except pieces of dog **** like DanS approved of the corporate raiders who deliberately kill healthy companies.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Or rather, the auto companies turned to hedge funds for loans when they couldn't get credit from the banks, and the hedge funds made money on the deals:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/13/business/hedge.php

You'd rather the companies not have any where to borrow funds and collapse right then?

And you say that Ford is ok because the Ford family owns the majority of stock and therefore was able to resist the hedge funds? When did the hedge funds ever own a majority of GM stock? Hmmm?

Hedge funds may have many problems, especially in relating to transparency, but to blame them on GM failure is so completely utterly laughable.

Oh, btw:

Notice how hedge funds can't raid companies in Japan and Germany?

http://www.alde.eu/index.php?id=42&c...c4f8&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=9790

Today, the European Parliament has approved a report on hedge funds that, despite efforts from Socialist MEPs, will not introduce top-down regulation.

That's right, the EU doesn't have top down regulation on hedge funds either. But more transparency sure, but that's it. Germany wanted more transparency for hedge funds, but was stymied by the G8 countries, including (get this) Japan.

And Dan is right that hedge funds do what their name says, they spread out and manage the risk. Do they need to be more transparent? Yes, but they aren't the uber evil boogeyman as some wish to make them out to be.

[Imran Siddiqui]

@ calling GM a "healthy company"

In order to be a healthy company, someone would have to buy your cars. And which healthy companies engage in such shady behavior as GM has done in its past?

[Naked Gents Rut]

GM got raided in just such a fashion. It's $25 billion rainy day fund got stolen by hedge funds doing just that. It would never have needed a bailout except pieces of dog **** like DanS approved of the corporate raiders who deliberately kill healthy companies.

God, you are so very, very stupid.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by notyoueither


You were saying?

I simply responded.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut


God, you are so very, very stupid.

Jesus Christ, You're an idiot who was banned for being an idiot. Why do the mods let you post under a pseudonym? You should be tossed in the garbage like your last AE was.

[Dinner]

BTW I heard lots of thrashing about by ********-Imran but no facts. Let's hear if he actually comes up with anything substantial of if he continues his errant stupidity.