25 Russian tourists killed in biggest traffic accident in Israeli history

[Sirotnikov]

•Israel's murder rate hovers anywhere between 2.2-3/100,000 (compared to 1.5-2.5 in Western Europe)
•Incarceration rate is quite high at roughly 170/100,000 (most developed countries are at 100 or below)

Where exactly did I disagree that the murder rate is low?
Infact I specifically stated so.

Property crime is huge in areas outside of central towns, and police is absolutely helpess against criminals in those areas, especially arab, druze and beduin villages they don't enter at all.

The car bombings are a thing of recent years, with the first one in 2004 IIRC, and several since.

If you compare over-time statistics you'll see that I'm right, because you have to compare with historical Israeli statistics.
Even then statistics don't tell the whole story because less and less public actually call the police. No one ever calls the police for anything short of murder, because they take ages to come round, never find anyone and the cases close in 6-12 months due to lack of interest.

Sounds like he's the typical conservative bull****ting about crime.

you're welcome to your liberal bull**** bias about people

from the Israeli Bureau of Statistics:
files opened by the police, total:
1990 252K
2000 379K
2006 477K
2007 442K

Public order:
2000 - 46K
2007 - 112K

property offences:
1990 - 191K
2000 - 247K
2006 - 253K
2007 - 226K



You were speaking about my criticism on the topic of lack of incarceration?

2006 data on adult offenders by recidivism:

public order 12.5K - of those 4.5 new and 8 recidivists
property - 5K - of those 1.5 new, 3.5 recidivists
drugs - 4.5K - of those 1 new and 3.5 recidivists
bodily harm - 6K - 2.5 new, 3.5 recidivists.

[Sirotnikov]

hehe

i went to the police site to see their version of the statistics. interesting stuff...

they were forced to change the label from "crime" to "Reported crime" recently.

Another interesting trend. For each year, there is a difference of 1-3% in amount of reported crime between the reported year and how the reported year shows up when it's included as previous trend.

Now this would be normal, if the files were prepared before the year was out, but no - the files are prepared 4 months into the year after. this means that there should be no crimes for previous years unaccounted for, unless the police retroactively opens investigations in the past....

seems like a fishy way to boost "crime decrease" statistics, because the larges bold figure is always the percentage of decrease from previous years.

[Sirotnikov]

the ministry of home security isn't as coy:
from a poll on public perception of the police force in 2007:
appreciation of police handling of mediocre crime is low (30%)
70% think there aren't enough policemen patrolling

"among those who actually came in contact with policemen there is a mediocre appreciation of policework. It is clear that actual contact with police has a negative impact of score in all areas".

very low appreciation of police efficiency, attitude towards those who seek police help, and inequality in treatment of those who seek police help - 16% gave a positive review.

[Fake Boris]

All right Siro.

Next time you make a point, make it clear from the beginning.

Your initial post was about judicial leniency, not police ineffectiveness.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


sadly our mafia is quite strong and has some serious international reach, responsible for drug traffic and gambling even in places in europe, south east asia and the US.

Yeah, reminds me of the fact that the Israeli mafia is very strong and well organized in Antwerp. Together with Georgians, Russians and other Eastern European gangs they're very much involved in organized crime here. The city is a major distribution hub of hard drugs, diamonds and other valuables, so it makes sense.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
All right Siro.

Next time you make a point, make it clear from the beginning.

Your initial post was about judicial leniency, not police ineffectiveness.

how is this data not an example of judicial leniency?

2006 data on adult offenders by recidivism:

public order 12.5K - of those 4.5 new and 8 recidivists
property - 5K - of those 1.5 new, 3.5 recidivists
drugs - 4.5K - of those 1 new and 3.5 recidivists
bodily harm - 6K - 2.5 new, 3.5 recidivists.

In most of those areas you have a 2 to 1 ratio of repeating offenders.
Why? Because they aren't jailed.

1st degree murder gets you around 10 years.

sadly i haven't found yet the data of jail terms.
Nor did I find good data about conviction rate.

[Fake Boris]

You want life terms for public order, property and drug offenders?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
You want life terms for public order, property and drug offenders?

of course not.

but 0 - 3 years is not enough for repeat offenders.
and murder should be 25 years and not 8-13 as it is now.

Consider that these are the terms before parole and shortening of the verdict, which they get often.

There's a large group of people who are repeat offenders and should be incarcerated.

All offenses should see an increase in jail terms.

Also, fines are laughable. Only recently have fines on major offenses by commercial companies have began to rise.

Companies who make billions would get a 20K fine for pollution, or 40K fine for deceiving customers. Of course their gain is probably higher than the fine. Companies should tremble before the court system. A deceiving company should suffer such a fine that takes it to a very dire situation. They should fear breaking the law more than anything else.