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  • #16
    Citigroup, U.S. government near bailout deal: WSJ


    Citigroup Inc. is nearing agreement with U.S. government officials to create a structure that would house some of the financial giant's risky assets, according to people familiar with the situation.

    While the discussions remain fluid and might not result in an agreement, talks were progressing Sunday toward creation of what would essentially be a "bad bank." That structure would help Citigroup cleanse its balance sheet of billions of dollars in potentially toxic assets, these people said.

    The bad bank also might absorb assets from Citigroup's off-balance-sheet entities, which hold $1.23 trillion. Some of those assets are tied to mortgages, and investors have worried such assets could cause heavy losses if they land on the company's balance sheet. Citigroup also has about $2 trillion in loans, securities and other assets on its balance sheet as of Sept. 30.

    Behind the push is a broad effort to shore up faith in the New York company, which saw its stock price tumble by 60% last week to a 16-year low.

    Under the terms being discussed, Citigroup would agree to absorb losses on assets covered by the agreement up to a certain threshold. The federal government would cover losses beyond that level, people familiar with the matter said. One person said the new entity is expected to hold about $50 billion of assets.

    A Citigroup spokeswoman declined to comment on the discussions.

    It is unclear whether the U.S. government will take an equity stake in Citigroup in return for providing a financial backstop. Also uncertain is if Citigroup would get a government loan to finance the facility. The government took that approach with insurer American International Group Inc. in late September.

    It wasn't known Sunday afternoon if Citigroup will have to make changes to its executive ranks, board or elsewhere inside the company in return for getting government assistance.

    After weekend discussions between Citigroup executives and officials at the Federal Reserve and Treasury Department, the parties are hoping to unveil an agreement Sunday evening, the people said.

    As Citigroup shares fell last week, Chief Executive Vikram Pandit and other top executives insisted that the plunge wasn't a threat because the company has plenty of capital and liquidity. But by Friday, bank officials were hoping for a public expression of confidence by the government, believing that would help reassure clients and customers.

    One rescue structure under consideration would resemble part of the $150 billion bailout plan that the government struck with AIG in November as part of a restructuring of the previous bailout. Two vehicles, funded largely by as much as $52.5 billion in government money, were created to take on risks from some of AIG's souring assets, including exposure to credit derivatives.

    That deal also reduced interest costs on AIG's $60 billion loan from the government.
    Citigroup is truly a monstrosity, holding assets 4 times that of Lehman Brothers. If this thing goes down, the damage to the financial system and world economy would be unimaginable. But it seems that a bailout is almost certain.

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    • #17
      I'll copy myself from March this year




      Citi were remarkably resilient up to this point, I am suprised they lasted this long (not to mention they even attempted to buy Wachovia in the meantime! )

      will be interesting to see how is this bailout structured...
      Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
      GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by One_more_turn
        Citigroup, U.S. government near bailout deal: WSJ




        Citigroup is truly a monstrosity, holding assets 4 times that of Lehman Brothers. If this thing goes down, the damage to the financial system and world economy would be unimaginable. But it seems that a bailout is almost certain.
        Another weekend deal to beat the market killing them?
        (\__/)
        (='.'=)
        (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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        • #19
          I hope the Treasury punishes them if they aren't letting the market do it for them.

          It's a sin to keep assets and obligations off the balance sheet and Citibank (and its shareholders) needs to be punished for it.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #20
            Seriously, after Enron's games with off balance sheet entities why didn't they enact some sort of reform designed to stop this practice or at least require companies to disclose them to investors?
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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            • #21
              The great news is at least Saudi Arabia's royal family is getting hammered by Citi Group's decline. If someone has to lose money it might as well be foreigners.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #22


                EDIT: That really has potential as a sig line.
                Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                • #23
                  (\__/)
                  (='.'=)
                  (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    here is the deal



                    Citigroup Inc., facing the threat of a breakup or sale, received $306 billion of U.S. government guarantees for troubled mortgages and toxic assets to stabilize the bank after its stock fell 60 percent last week.

                    Citigroup also will get a $20 billion cash injection from the Treasury Department, adding to the $25 billion the company received last month under the Troubled Asset Relief Program. In return for the cash and guarantees, the government will get $27 billion of preferred shares paying an 8 percent dividend. Citigroup rose as much as 41 percent in German trading today.

                    .
                    .
                    .

                    Terms of the asset guarantees mean Citigroup will cover the first $29 billion of pretax losses from the $306 billion pool, in addition to any reserves it already has set aside. After that, the government covers 90 percent of the losses, with Citigroup covering the other 10 percent from assets, including residential and commercial mortgages, leveraged loans and so-called structured investment vehicles.

                    Unlike the bailouts of insurer American International Group Inc. and mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, no management changes were required and Pandit gets to keep his job, government officials said. The agreement does call for the government approving executive compensation.


                    306 billion covered, Citi covers the first 29bn, the gov picks up 90% of the bill after that... and gains on the upside if the company recovers which looks like some middle lane - decent deal for both sides, but also punishes more prudent competitors, as Citi gets out easy - assuming this is enough to take them trough the rough period.

                    Emerging markets exposure is not covered.
                    Citigroup remains vulnerable to losses on loans and securities outside the U.S., said Peter Kovalski, a portfolio manager at Alpine Woods Capital Investors LLC in Purchase, New York, which oversees $8 billion and holds Citigroup shares.

                    The government plan “gives them a little bit of breathing room, but longer term, things may deteriorate and losses increase,” said Kovalski. “The Achilles heel with Citi is their exposure to emerging markets and what’s going to happen when emerging markets turn down, as they’re doing now.”
                    Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                    GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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                    • #25
                      and in other news: Rivals bet against Morgan Stanley in September

                      Major Wall Street firms placed large bets against Morgan Stanley (MS.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) using credit-default swaps, two days after Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc (LEHMQ.PK: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) sought bankruptcy protection, the Wall Street Journal said, citing trading records.

                      The firms included Merrill Lynch & Co (MER.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), Citigroup Inc (C.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), Deutsche Bank AG (DBKGn.DE: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and UBS AG (UBSN.VX: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), according to the paper.

                      The paper said that a close examination of the trading revealed that the swaps played a critical role in magnifying bearish sentiment about Morgan Stanley.

                      ehhh...

                      & I like this comment on Marketwatch re:Citi
                      So the lesson is to always build a company that threatens to take the economy down with it if it fails. If you do so, you can take enormous risks, make enough money to retire for a lifetime in a year or two and leave the taxpayers to foot the bill. Nice job if you can get it.
                      Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                      GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        This is not the solution. More troubles are ahead for citi. $300 billion is a fraction of citi's total assets. But that should give it enough breathing space for the next couple of months.

                        I think it's conceivable that at the end of this crisis, ALL of Wall Street's highly leveraged financial institutions will be nationalized. Common shareholders of Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Barclay's, Banco Santander, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, UBS are ALL at great risk of being wiped out. It's likely that world's financial system will be fundamentally changed.

                        This is a very dangerous time for small investors.
                        Last edited by One_more_turn; November 24, 2008, 06:18.

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                        • #27


                          ah well...

                          A purchase of Citigroup Inc. would “significantly” add to Goldman Sachs Group Inc. or Morgan Stanley’s earnings as long as the U.S. government absorbed losses on the embattled bank’s assets, according CreditSights Inc.

                          Buying Citigroup “would be significantly accretive to Goldman and Morgan Stanley’s earnings as the potential buyer would be acquiring a significant future earnings stream for a relatively low price,” David Hendler, an analyst at CreditSights in New York, wrote in a report yesterday. The buyer “would probably receive government support if it was needed.”
                          Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                          GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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                          • #28
                            Didn't they already spend (with no real effect) the first $300 billion? If they spend another $300 billion on just Citi Group then that's $600 billion of the $700 billion bailout over and done with and we still have about two months before Obama even takes office. :\
                            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                            • #29
                              They're gov't guarantees, not spending, Oerdin.
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
                                I will say this:

                                I cannot directly attribute, blindly, this inexcuseable economy to one person, GWB.

                                We have been contributing to this indirectly and directly for years with lavish lifestyles, minimal accountability by the very elite of the elite.
                                Why are you blaming them? They don't vote in the government all by themselves. The fact is that you've all been living in a dream (and you still are, once the environmental externalities of your current economic system are factored in).

                                What I will say is by stating with a conviction that it is acceptable to maintain Plausible Deniability is to me unconscienable

                                Many sitting presidents have done this very thing, over and over, I do feel somewhat that GWB was sitting on top of Old Smokey when she blew, and yes, certainly did some to contribute to its increasded volatility and our certain demise. He did continually say early on, we were not in but for sure we were just outside of freakin recession

                                Its very bad in the construction Industry mow, at least in southeastern USA
                                Again, you trudge off to the ballot box and vote for these cretins, so who's to blame?

                                I probably am most bothered by companies and governments allowed to continually spend our hard earned taxpayers funds and then simply walk away when failure envelopes them. Big time CEO's allowed a Golden Parachute, even though a company is bankrupt, shareholder funds depleted, but yet they get paid irreguardless......
                                Again, you guys vote for the people who allow this, and, more importantly, you vote for the current economic system that you have. Any government that attempted to force financial discipline on US citizens would have been voted down. In the end you only have yourselves to blame.
                                Only feebs vote.

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