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Fun fact: While the American automakers flounder and cry, Toyota just opened up a new massive plant in Canada today...
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"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. " -
Absolutely, but our orders collapsed in the past two weeks.No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.Comment
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I hear you, and that is unfortunate, but the issue at hand is whether GM, Ford, and Chrysler going bankrupt would have any long term impact on you. If these companies decrease production, then other companies would replace that production. We all still drive cars, after all. (Well, I don't, but I am a very rare breed.)I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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I'm certain it will have no long term impact, provided we survive the short term impact.
I feel like I'm riding an avalanche.Last edited by The Mad Monk; November 19, 2008, 15:26.No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.Comment
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That actually raises an interesting question - ignoring all the woe-is-us economic effects, what would likely happen if the Big Three ceased to exist? Those guys hold an impressive amount of global market share right now. Would there be a fairly uniform grab by all other manufacturers? Would Toyota become an even bigger behemoth? Would anything new emerge in the west or would developing-world manufacturers like Tata or Geely make big break throughs?Originally posted by DanS
I hear you, and that is unfortunate, but the issue at hand is whether GM, Ford, and Chrysler going bankrupt would have any long term impact on you. If these companies decrease production, then other companies would replace that production. We all still drive cars, after all. (Well, I don't, but I am a very rare breed.)"The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
"you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
"I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - DissidentComment
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TMM: Especially if you are a small company, the customer switch may be disruptive. However, probably you should be worried more about the general economic condition than the fortunes of any one (or 3) company.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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a) They wouldn't disappear instantly. They have a lot of momentum. Will take time to shut them down.
b) In the interim, other companies would be gearing up to take over (probably purchasing physical assets, hiring the laid-off employees etc.
c) I would guess that there would be at least 1 US startup trying to take advantage of the gap in the market12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Ultima Ratio RegumComment
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No, they wouldn't disappear instantly. A complicating factor is that most of the car companies, the Japanese included, have lots of unsold cars and will be curtailing production in any event. There is lots of spare capacity out there. The US industry (Detroit and foreign) is built to produce 15+ million cars a year, but is selling only 11 million cars.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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For Asher, since he's under the impression the Japanese automakers don't have unions.
In Japan, Toyota Motor Workers’ Union has 58,000 members.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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Some Japanese automakers have unions in the US too. Honda is partly unionized. But Toyota isn't, and they have the highest pay and benefits besides Detroit.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Yeah, I heard him talking on NPR on my drive to work this morning. I didn't hear the GM > AIG line, though. It's not clear to me why anyone should listen to Chris Dodd, chairman of the senate banking committee, after the financial meltdown.Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I heard Dodd made the claim (he talked to NPR today) that GM is far more important to the overall economy than AIG was/is, which is patently untrue. AIG's impending failure posed a truly systemic risk (due to the reckless actions it took in writing huge amounts of CDOs, as I understand it). This does not mean that AIG's employees, shareholders or management "deserves" more protection than GM's. But if the US gov't is going to be in the business of crisis mitigation then AIG makes sense. GM et al do not.
I also note that financial firms are basically unable to take advantage of Chap. 11 because their entire business model involves taking on and paying off different debts, which Chap. 11 freezes, to some extent. Force GM to go into Chap. 11, then consider giving them some gov't DIP financing. Wipe out the equity holders, convert the current bondholders (and by implication the union as well) into equity holders, allow them to re-emerge.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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That's interesting because Toyota has zero unions in North America.Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
For Asher, since he's under the impression the Japanese automakers don't have unions.
In Japan, Toyota Motor Workers’ Union has 58,000 members.
And I think you need to do a lot of research into the powers and utility of unions in Japanese business culture.
Toyota is one of the biggest employers in the province of Ontario, and has a few major auto plants here, none of which are unionized and all of which are highly profitable. They just opened a new one today.
Edit: And before you blame it all on more competent management, the plant they just opened here makes the Rav4 -- and SUV.
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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I've seen the claim made (by lefty types on the 'net) that if we had universal healthcare, GM/Ford/Chrysler would be fixable, because it's primarily the healthcare costs that are killing them.
The argument continues that Honda & Toyota have built-in advantages b/c their Japanese employees have socialized health care, which keeps the companies overall healthcare costs down. Stealth subsidy.
So... here you have Dems elected on a platform of health care reform. Setting aside the fact that we don't know for sure what form it will take (if indeed the Dems succeed in passing anything at all), could that be the bailout GM really needs?
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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What I think would be interesting to discuss, if we could find three or four people who aren't passionately anti-union or passionately anti-corporate, would be, what is a system under which both unions and corporations would flourish? More specifically, under what organizational structure could you posit a union that benefited its members, and while not benefiting the corporation directly (monetarily), was beneficial in creating a sustainable corporate model with happy, appropriately compensated employees working under appropriate conditions, without the tendency unions have to either become self-gratifying or destructive of the employer?<Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.Comment
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