Some People think all Veterans Are Evil

[Unimatrix11]

I just looked through the thread mentioned, and in substance i agree with the comrade. It is BTW IMHO the christian way - not so much the communist way (´love your enemy´, ´offer the other cheek´).

Blaupanzer: The question is though, why would people be vowing ´to kill you and yours´? What, or rather who, enabled Hitler to come to power and later invade the USSR ? Who funded the NSDAP ? Yeppers, right, the trusts did (and who else could have ?). And not only german ones. War is big business and peoples and their soldier are just the pieces in this chess-game (nationalism is the board kinda).

When i talk to vets, i have an odd mixed feeling of respect, for what they had to go through, and pity, for they usually have no idea why they had to go through it (and in this regard it doesnt matter if Wehrmacht or USAF). But i wont tell them - cause i´d find it unfair to send those who already fought a war outside into a war inside.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher
To call Veterans (of which many people on this site are) "evil" is to be deeply personally insulting.

Who cares. You try to insult people constantly.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
Asher's thread doesn't qualify which he is praising, but let's assume he does not include the Japanese and German vets, both groups of whom believed very strongly in their duty to fight for their countries.

I specifically mentioned the Commonwealth, and if you knew anything you'd also recognize the date of the holiday's significance.

It doesn't matter anyway, you spoke in general terms.

Our Empire has killed over ten million around the world since the end of WWII. Canada has helped. This is something of which to be proud?

Some of the most shameful historical actions of America involve their inaction in World Wars 1 and 2 until it was too late. If you fought earlier, more lives may have been saved.

"Remembrance Day" is not "Veteran's Day". You already have a "Veteran's Day" thread. Remembrance Day is what we celebrate in Canada, and it has **** all to do with your country.

[chequita guevara]

Of course, the reality is that the Vets were victims too. Used by imperialists to suppress those who stand opposed to our Empire's aims. They were the ones who had to disrupt their lives and lose them fighting people standing up for their own freedom. They deserve sympathy, but not praise.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Who cares. You try to insult people constantly.

It's one thing to insult someone who is mind-numbingly stupid and present after they've done or said something mind-numbingly stupid. It's quite another to insult the dead, some of the world's most honourable people, in general without qualification...

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
It's one thing to be a veteran in war of self-defense. When is the last war of self-defense the U.S. fought? Hmmmm . . . I think it was 1812. Of course, that was mixed in with an imperialist adventure on Canada. People have a right to defend themselves, and in this world, most people need to defend themselves from the people who become American vets.

Asher's thread doesn't qualify which he is praising, but let's assume he does not include the Japanese and German vets, both groups of whom believed very strongly in their duty to fight for their countries. Now how is it that Asia reacts whenever a Japanese politician visits the memorial to the war dead? What about when someone attempts to honor the German war dead?

Our Empire has killed over ten million around the world since the end of WWII. Canada has helped. This is something of which to be proud? The murder and destruction of whole nations is something we should honor? The vets I honor are the ones who said no.

I most certainly would not praise Nazi veterans, but I also most certainly would not object to them being praised by their countrymen (as a group, not individually - I might object to, say, Himmler being praised, as he certainly was an evil man. I don't think, though, that most of the Nazi soldiers were evil; some were and some weren't, as is the case with US soldiers or any other army.) It's called respect. I wouldn't interfere simply because I disagree with the aims of Germany, because I am adult enough to recognize that other people can have opinions different than mine, and that's okay. Praising people being loyal and putting forth the ultimate effort for those causes they believe in is never a bad thing, regardless of the cause.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
Of course, the reality is that the Vets were victims too. Used by imperialists to suppress those who stand opposed to our Empire's aims. They were the ones who had to disrupt their lives and lose them fighting people standing up for their own freedom. They deserve sympathy, but not praise.

Today Canada honours our peacekeepers who have died around the world trying to make lives better for other people.
We also honour our veterans of all wars past for serving their country, whether it was fending off Hitler or fighting in World War I or Afghanistan, it does not matter.

These are men and women who put their country first, and it is something to be praised and it is something they should be honoured for. Whether you disagree with the decision of the politicians is another issue entirely.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher


It's one thing to insult someone who is mind-numbingly stupid and present after they've done or said something mind-numbingly stupid. It's quite another to insult the dead, some of the world's most honourable people, in general without qualification...

I don't know what that has to do with you insulting people because they are communists. for example.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I don't know what that has to do with you insulting people because they are communists. for example.

I don't insult people because they are communist.

I insult people who are stupid. For example, a stupid person may think I am insulting them because they are communist, when in reality they are stupid.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Asher
Some of the most shameful historical actions of America involve their inaction in World Wars 1 and 2 until it was too late. If you fought earlier, more lives may have been saved.

First off, there was no good side in WWI. Both sides were the bad guys. If the U.S. had actually been neutral (as opposed to being an effective ally from very early on), the war would have ended years earlier.

In WWII, the war could have been stopped before it was started. If the Allies hadn't been so opposed to signing a defense treaty with the USSR, Hitler could never have invaded Poland. It's not our fault Europe was more anti-Communist than anti-Fascist.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
It's one thing to be a veteran in war of self-defense. When is the last war of self-defense the U.S. fought? Hmmmm . . . I think it was 1812. Of course, that was mixed in with an imperialist adventure on Canada. People have a right to defend themselves, and in this world, most people need to defend themselves from the people who become American vets.

Most people? As in, more than fifty percent of the world's population? Not "a couple of small countries in Asia, one in Africa and a general muckup in the Balkans," which pretty much covers our military engagements of the past fifty years?

Asher's thread doesn't qualify which he is praising, but let's assume he does not include the Japanese and German vets, both groups of whom believed very strongly in their duty to fight for their countries. Now how is it that Asia reacts whenever a Japanese politician visits the memorial to the war dead? What about when someone attempts to honor the German war dead?

If I had to guess, I'd say it had something to do with the six million dead Jews and that Nanking place. Plus the fact that they were both undeniably aggressors in that war. Are you arguing against yourself now?

Our Empire has killed over ten million around the world since the end of WWII. Canada has helped. This is something of which to be proud? The murder and destruction of whole nations is something we should honor? The vets I honor are the ones who said no.

In which case they are not veterans at all.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
It's one thing to be a veteran in war of self-defense. When is the last war of self-defense the U.S. fought? Hmmmm . . . I think it was 1812. Of course, that was mixed in with an imperialist adventure on Canada. People have a right to defend themselves, and in this world, most people need to defend themselves from the people who become American vets.

Asher's thread doesn't qualify which he is praising, but let's assume he does not include the Japanese and German vets, both groups of whom believed very strongly in their duty to fight for their countries. Now how is it that Asia reacts whenever a Japanese politician visits the memorial to the war dead? What about when someone attempts to honor the German war dead?

Our Empire has killed over ten million around the world since the end of WWII. Canada has helped. This is something of which to be proud? The murder and destruction of whole nations is something we should honor? The vets I honor are the ones who said no.

Again, I never said one peep about the U.S.; I was just questioning your categorical statement about veterans which did include self-defense until this clarification. If you do agree that self-defense is still a-ok in principle, I have no issue.

Still, the defensive nature of at least the Pacific War would be debatable, unless you're of the opinion that the Hull Ultimatum and other actions deliberately coerced Japan into bombing Pearl Harbor. Also if you seriously think the mere impressment of American trade ships and sailors was enough of a casus belli to label the War of 1812 "defensive," then I fail to see how the 1917 resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare was less extreme. Perhaps you could clue me in.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher

I don't insult people because they are communist.

You're a liar. You did it just last night.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles

First off, there was no good side in WWI. Both sides were the bad guys. If the U.S. had actually been neutral (as opposed to being an effective ally from very early on), the war would have ended years earlier.

In WWII, the war could have been stopped before it was started. If the Allies hadn't been so opposed to signing a defense treaty with the USSR, Hitler could never have invaded Poland. It's not our fault Europe was more anti-Communist than anti-Fascist.

That's not the point. The rest of the world fought a long, extended battle while the United States looked on. More lives could have been saved had you helped end the war earlier.

It was the pacifism in the US that cost more lives than the action of Canada, which immediately came to defend genuine freedom while the US twiddled its thumbs and shrugged.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kidicious


You're a liar. You did it just last night.

Cite?