Some People think all Veterans Are Evil

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

I object to your argument, think it is simplistic, deluded an misguided.

Throwing down one's weapons and hoping the other side will follow, is not a choice in most cases.

I clearly asked you to make a choise.

You clearly said that you refuse to help stopping a holocaust (be it of jews, of tutsi or of sudanese), because it might coincidentally strengthen the government of your country, whose views you object.

This paints you in awful colors as to your moral nature (on which you said: you have no morality) and also shows that you think with the capacity of a 6 year old. It's "you" vs. "them".

You say that you would have been proud to refuse war against Nazi germany, because it might strengthen the US, and then you try and say that I see thing in black and white? Are you really that self-unaware and silly?

Did you follow the conversation I had with GT about him wanting to kill me if I abandoned my post? I'll ask you the same thing. Why should I kill Germans who if I weren't trying to kill help me out of a jam if asked, but not kill Americans who want to kill me if I don't do what they tell me to do? You don't seem to realize how ridiculous it is to take a side in a war just because you were born in a certain country. To you the country you live in is automatically good, and all their enemies bad. You're attempt to make me look like I think in black and white fails.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Elok
If saying "**** you" over and over again constitutes an intellectual critique, the smartest community online probably consists largely of XBox-playing thirteen-year-olds.

A) Because one part of one song defines the whole. By your logic "Longview" unequivocally proves that Green Day has nothing to talk about aside from jerkin one's gerkin.

B) Aren't you an English major? I never said it was intellectual. I merely said it was "more intellectual and fact-related than Green Day's littany of trite platitudes." For instance, 3 > 0.000001 does not imply 3 = 10. And this is coming from someone who doesn't even agree with their politics 90% of the time.

Originally posted by Elok
the only two I even remember

Originally posted by Elok
the two RATM tunes I remember

...this explains your viewpoint perfectly. Similarly, I've only seen The Phantom Menace, which proves that A New Hope through Return of the Jedi were certainly total crap. Maybe if they hadn't put that obnoxious Jar Jar Binks pr*ck in all six movies they might have been OK.

Originally posted by Elok
the shame of listening to Nirvana is enough

Well, we can agree on that much. The most overrated trash of the decade.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
i aint got no suck-@$$ song lyrics like you to show patriotism in a non violent way

The song lyrics are just my way of showing that there are other people who believe the way CS and I do in the world. I also used quotes from other famous people who aren't musicians.

Keep on talking though, because you're the perfect case of the mindless soldier.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Darius871
A) Because one part of one song defines the whole. By your logic "Longview" unequivocally proves that Green Day has nothing to talk about aside from jerkin one's gerkin.

B) I never said it was intellectual. I merely said it was "more intellectual and fact-related than Green Day's littany of trite platitudes." For instance, 3 > 0.000001 does not imply 3 = 10. And this is coming from someone who doesn't even agree with their politics 90% of the time.

I concur that neither is intellectual, which renders the question irrelevant. We're in the position of men endorsing Stalin as "less evil than Hitler." So I judge by musical quality...which sucks hardcore in RATM's case.

...this explains your viewpoint perfectly. Similarly, I've only seen The Phantom Menace, which proves that A New Hope through Return of the Jedi were certainly total crap. Maybe if they hadn't put that obnoxious Jar Jar Binks pr*ck in all six movies they might have been OK.

I said the only I remember. But I know I heard all of The Battle of Los Angeles or whatever it was called, and if I remember only two songs out of the album--and remember those as annoying and stupid--that doesn't say much. In all fairness, I'll amend that to "Battle of Los Angeles sucks," which in context is much the same since both of the songs he quoted were from that album.

Well, we can agree on that much. The most overrated trash of the decade.

Mea Culpa, I was about ten.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Elok
I concur that neither is intellectual, which renders the question irrelevant. We're in the position of men endorsing Stalin as "less evil than Hitler." So I judge by musical quality...which sucks hardcore in RATM's case.

Fair enough. If that's not in so much dispute and for you this truly boils down to what's pleasing to the ear, we both know that's purely a matter of taste. You apparently need something with a soothing melodic flow (no matter how simplistic or lacking in technical proficiency), while I can enjoy both that for one minute and something a little more abstract or disjointed the next, and then back again. It's sort of like Monet & Manet vs. Picasso & Braque, if you catch my drift.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Kidicious


The song lyrics are just my way of showing that there are other people who believe the way CS and I do in the world. I also used quotes from other famous people who aren't musicians.

Keep on talking though, because you're the perfect case of the mindless soldier.

Actually, that honor goes to Doug Neidermeyer

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Elok
So I judge by musical quality...which sucks hardcore in RATM's case.

Which has nothing to do with it. Like I said, I picked the lyrics because they were appropriate to the situation, not because I like the song, although I do very much.

[Elok]

And the lyrics are stupid and sophomoric, which undermines your point. But if it still counts, hey, I'll quote a Jack Chick comic the next time somebody starts a religion thread...

[Kidlicious]

I'll be sure to post more RATM lyrics in the future since it pleases you so.

[Elok]

And I'll retaliate with lyrics from better songs. Or worse ones, if I can think of any. Oh, wait...

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find

In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do, or say
Is in the pill you took today

In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes
You won't find a thing to chew
Nobody's gonna look at you

In the year 5555
Your arms are hanging limp at your sides
Your legs not nothing to do
Some machine is doing that for you

In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too
From the bottom of a long black tube

In the year 7510
If God's a-comin' he ought to make it by then
Maybe he'll look around himself and say
Guess it's time for the Judgement day

In the year 8510
God's gonna shake his mighty head
He'll either say I'm pleased where man has been
Or tear it down and start again

In the year 9595
I'm kinda wondering if man's gonna be alive
He's taken everything this old earth can give
And he ain't put back nothing

Now it's been 10,000 years
Man has cried a billion tears
For what he never knew
Now man's reign is through
But through the eternal night
The twinkling of starlight
So very far away
Maybe it's only yesterday

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find

In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do or say
Is in the pill you took today ....

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Elok
And I'll retaliate with lyrics from better songs. Or worse ones, if I can think of any. Oh, wait...

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find

In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do, or say
Is in the pill you took today

In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes
You won't find a thing to chew
Nobody's gonna look at you

In the year 5555
Your arms are hanging limp at your sides
Your legs not nothing to do
Some machine is doing that for you

In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too
From the bottom of a long black tube

In the year 7510
If God's a-comin' he ought to make it by then
Maybe he'll look around himself and say
Guess it's time for the Judgement day

In the year 8510
God's gonna shake his mighty head
He'll either say I'm pleased where man has been
Or tear it down and start again

In the year 9595
I'm kinda wondering if man's gonna be alive
He's taken everything this old earth can give
And he ain't put back nothing

Now it's been 10,000 years
Man has cried a billion tears
For what he never knew
Now man's reign is through
But through the eternal night
The twinkling of starlight
So very far away
Maybe it's only yesterday

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find

In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do or say
Is in the pill you took today ....

ELOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Zaeger & Evans

[SlowwHand]

Finally, something of...note.

[Elok]

You do know I meant that as the definitive BAD song, right? Right???

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Did you follow the conversation I had with GT about him wanting to kill me if I abandoned my post? I'll ask you the same thing. Why should I kill Germans who if I weren't trying to kill help me out of a jam if asked, but not kill Americans who want to kill me if I don't do what they tell me to do?

Of course the germans would help you out of a jam, if you told them that you deserted and stopped fighting against them.

You are essentially comparing two, totally incomparable situations. This is something you do again and again. The social context in which the germans help you out is totally different from the one in which an american would want hurt to come to you.

Were you a german citizen and refused to fight on their side, or deserted post, you would be shot much sooner, by government orders, than in the US side.

As a side note, probably more americans would help you out of a jam, than germans. Also probably your own government would sooner help you out of a jam than the german government.

You don't seem to realize how ridiculous it is to take a side in a war just because you were born in a certain country.

No it isn't.
It is a perfectly valid third circle of identity. The first one being your family, the second your hometown folk/friends.

This is why people defend their friends, cheer for thier football groups etc. Humans work in clans. That is how human society is structured. And it is good because as a part of a clan, you get defense, shelter, food, and other social favors from others in your clan.

Your country provides you with defense (as best as it can), upholds the law (as best as it can). Your countrymen pay taxes that go to support many of your rights. That is part of the social contract you have with your countrymen.

To you the country you live in is automatically good, and all their enemies bad.

I never said that.

It is you who said that the only parameter to judge is whether a government personally grieved you. And since the Nazis never grieved you, but the US government did, you would rather not join the war effort against the Nazis, since it does not further your immediate interests.

A more black-and-white approach is hard to find.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Elok
You do know I meant that as the definitive BAD song, right? Right???

Hmm...