Does Socialized Medicine Work?

[Kidlicious]

It works the same in all industries, however it's more extreme in health care.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Elok
I'm just curious why you specified autoimmune disorders, Japher. That's not a subset of illness one generally thinks of as easily cured, since it's typically genetic and caused by one's own body rather than a pathogen.

Like any real USAian he learned that from TV. You see, when he tought of "rare disease" his mind instantly made an association with House MD (a show I rather like ), saying Lupus sounded too transparent, so he said autoimmune disease.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by GePap
The funny thing is that the reason for the waits, as the Boston Globe article clearly states, is that there already was a shortage of primary care doctors, and now that so many more people have gotten insurance, people are actually using it.

Yes.

The reason why the French healthcare system works so well (it's consistently rated as the best in the world) is because they have the most doctors. More doctors mean they can't charge as much as American doctors. So in the end, France gets two doctors for the price of one American doctor.

We may also discuss the reason why they have more of them. Part of the explanation is probably that university is free.

[Heraclitus]

" Does Socialized Medicine Work?"

Short answer: "Yes."

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Part of the explanation is probably that university is free.

Uni is free here too, at least for your first choice, if you fluke out you get another chance and after that you need to pay it yourself.

[DanS]

Originally posted by TheStinger
We don't do that well in comparison to some countries in terms of number of docs per head of population however, waiting lists are down and from a personal poitn of view we received very good treatment when my wife got a serious compplication during her pregnancy

Can you give us some flavor on the waiting lists (type, length) from your personal experience?

[Kirnwaffen]

Is this recent or decades old? The Army's been having a lot of problems lately, especially for soldiers who need psych help.

The psych issue is a much more recent phenomenon, but my larger point (admittedly poorly made) was that any socialized/single payer system needs to have excess capacity to deal with upticks in use. You would think that the Army would have figured this out by now, yet each time a unit returns from a deployment, there are several forms of care that end up taking a month or more to get.

The problem in the US is that costs are technology driven. Technology usually lowers costs in an industry, but in the healthcare industry it increases costs, and you need a socialized system to control that.

I don't necessarily agree with that. I honestly think that our cost problem here is due in large part to our reimbursement structure. Docs usually get paid by the procedure, and, therefore, are incentivized to do the most profitable procedure they can justify, rather than the most medically/cost effective.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I know a guy who went to China from the US for treatment. Does that mean that China is better than the US for health?

JM

It really depends on what you need fixed. If you need open heart surgery you're much better off having it done in the US. If you need some of the easy, more basic stuff its much cheaper overseas. For instance I had to have my apendix out. Not one of those things you can put off for a few days while traveling I know. The cost here was $18,000. I was in the hospital 3 days 2 nights. Insurance covered 90%. So I was left with $1800. For that $1800 I could have had the whole operation performed 5 times in the Philippines. Hospital, everything. Not sure about China but I bet its roughly the same.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen
Docs usually get paid by the procedure, and, therefore, are incentivized to do the most profitable procedure they can justify, rather than the most medically/cost effective.

It's always been like that. Therefore that can't explain the increase in healthcare costs.

[Colon™]

Originally posted by GePap
There is also the problem of redundant beaurocracy. I mean, the US government runs multiple health care systems of it's own, but I would guess that they all have independent beaurocracies doing the same things, when perhaps one single Federal health care system for those civilians that get governmen subsidized care (seniors, the poor, veterans) would be cheaper.

I venture to say that will not happen because it'll make senators think they woke up in France.

[Kirnwaffen]

It's always been like that. Therefore that can't explain the increase in healthcare costs.

Well, I mean, I agree that technology plays a role in that more expensive procedures are available, but the real problem, in my view, is that these procedures are being done more often than is medically necessary because they ultimately pay better for the physician.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen


Well, I mean, I agree that technology plays a role in that more expensive procedures are available, but the real problem, in my view, is that these procedures are being done more often than is medically necessary because they ultimately pay better for the physician.

We agree then.

[Lancer]

Ambulance chasers too. Hang em all and US healthcare would be alot cheaper. 83% cheaper.

[Kirnwaffen]

That's another good point. My step-dad is a cardiologist, and he absolutely hates dealing with ER docs because they're never willing to do anything less than everything for fear of getting sued.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Can you give us some flavor on the waiting lists (type, length) from your personal experience?

I can give an example...

my daughter was diagnosed with Diabetes type 1 year and a half ago... at the local surgery in the village in the morning - same day into hospital... all tests done in the afternoon... back home for sleep... back again to the hospital in the morning... diagnosed, local health team assigned which includes... diabetic nurse, doctor, dietitian and (some other fourth person that we never needed and I straight don't even know what that position is) ... got onto the regime the following day, back home with nurse checking us out for first two weeks a bit more, with a mobile where she is accessible during day time (she is still available on it even today, they would let us know if she changed... but we literally contacted her only once after the initial period, when we were going to Turkey on holiday this year, to ask for advice whether there are any special things we need to think about when going on such a trip, which was the first of the kind since our daughter was diagnosed) + hospital number if there are any issues during the night... with 3 months regular checkups scheduled...

this year (beginning of September), we discovered that my daughter developed eye cataract - rare for kids, but can happen with diabetics + it runs in my wife's family... got the appointments within a week @ Great Ormonds Street (well known kids hospital in UK); since we "raised the alarm" that our daughter cannot see well... there got the surgery scheduled in 10 days from that appointment... went to hospital - got it done, stayed there for 3 + 1 nights in total... perfect...

we even had a scare the following weekend (Saturday night), where it seemed that in one eye our daughter is starting to develop an infection (which is rare, less than 1/1000, but very dangerous if it's real)... at the time they did not have anyone on duty in the eye clinic at Great Ormonds which did the surgery, but they referred us to the eye clinic on duty (Moorfields in London) on Saturday night, where we spoke with the doctor, he was concerned given the symptoms, asked whether we can come... we went there at 1am Sat night... where they have seen us (we were never in that hospital before) and the doctor said that it is all fine, and just excess irritation from the stitches still in her eye, but no infection which was most important... and he told us that it was good that we came in, as infection is rare, but best to be checked as the eye can inflame really quickly and the consequences can be really serious if it happens. Thankfully it was not the case, but also I was really impressed by the availability (specialized case 1am on Sat morning) and service for someone who is not even from the area...

and I know for a fact that in Europe the services on many levels are of even higher standard! UK is one of the worst on many counts (even though availability to anyone without any checks was typically the best, but they are curbing this now to reduce the costs), despite of this alleged inferiority the service we are getting is superb (sure I could nitpick like being busy at the surgery, or eye clinic so you get occasional 15-30min waiting time for non-urgent cases, but let's get real here... ) overall it's an A - I am very, very happy for what I get in return for 9% National Insurance tax

Most importantly I have no extra expenses to cover for the condition (all prescriptions are free for under 18's, and even than they cost 6 or 7£ per prescription for adults), and you can go on with your life as normal (once you get used to the condition), with no extra financial/other unnecessary burden than the condition itself imposes.

To round up - of all if you want private - get private insurance and than deal with private hospitals - the two can happily co-exist, and I believe they do in all of Europe... but in majority of the cases what state provides is more than enough... it's reassuring, it adds to quality of live TREMENDOUSLY, and really it's a little something we do for each other through the state... I wish we didn't have this health issue (and noone really wants problems with health do we?) and that all of us are as healthy as I am (I myself never really needed to use any of their services), but really my health is sort of a bonus and it is reassuring to know if there is a problem, that there is something for backup without fear of financial problems on top of whatever the issues might be...