McCain Goes Too Far In Attacks

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Please explain how. I, after all, don't back every team from a state. I tend to stick to one per league or conference.

Sloww has loyalty to texas. I have no problem with that - it's entirely self consistent.

You seem to root for whomever is hot at the moment ... I don't remember you rooting for Tampa in 2005

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by snoopy369
You seem to root for whomever is hot at the moment ... I don't remember you rooting for Tampa in 2005

Name some other team I rooted for who was "hot at the moment". I started pulling for Tampa after I went down and visited their ballpark in early June of this year. IIRC, they weren't in 1st at that time, but they were close... and they fit with my hatred of the Yankees and Red Sox. Anyone who can knock them off the AL East perch will be pulled for by most baseball fans.

If the White Sox didn't make the playoffs, I bet you'd be pulling for the Rays to make sure the Red Sox didn't get to the WS as well.

OTOH, all year I made no bones that my #1 rooting interest in baseball is the Mets. In the NFL, it's the Falcons (obviously), in the NHL, it's the Devils, in the EPL it's Newcastle (who have never really been 'hot' in the last 5 years), in college football its Rutgers (but I also like Pete Carroll and Urban Meyer and will cheer for their team).

At least Jaguar thinks Slow's blathering is utter silliness.

It is amazing that I posted on Sports centered forums and only here is where I get this bull.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

I was rooting for the Rays just because of my absolute disgust of all things Philly.

[snoopy369]

Imran, I think the difference is you act like the Rays are 'your team', while really the Mets are your team ... I actually am rooting for the rays right now, because I like their style (like it more than the Sox' style right now ) but I'd never say I am a "Rays Fan" - I just admire the team and prefer them to the Phillies (who I actually probably like style-wise over any other team in the NL, except Colorado possibly, though not nearly as much as the Rays).

I imagine you're just like most fans of teams that are ****ty ... you find someone else to root for Mostly I'm just giving you **** though ... although your USC/Florida rooting interest is a bit suspicious

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
At least Jaguar thinks Slow's blathering is utter silliness.

Who says? I take him completely seriously. You, sir, are a fair weather fan and a slut.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think the difference is you act like the Rays are 'your team', while really the Mets are your team

Well if I'm backing an AL team, I'm not going half assed. You can half ass your support all you wish, though.

I mean, Hell, they exist in a separately league that plays a very small number of games against the other league until the World Series.

It's almost like saying you can't have rooting interest in the English Premier League and Italy's Serie A.

I imagine you're just like most fans of teams that are ****ty ... you find someone else to root for

*cough* Falcons.

although your USC/Florida rooting interest is a bit suspicious

Offensive football is fun to watch and Urban Meyer stuck it to every SEC coach and fan who said the spread can't work in the SEC, and I love it when most of the SEC looks silly.

[MarkG]

speaking of attacks, it seems the "obama wants to talk to dictators" argument is now backfiring

McCain's Private Visit With Chilean Dictator Pinochet Revealed For First Time

John McCain, who has harshly criticized the idea of sitting down with dictators without pre-conditions, appears to have done just that. In 1985, McCain traveled to Chile for a friendly meeting with Chile's military ruler, General Augusto Pinochet, one of the world's most notorious violators of human rights credited with killing more than 3,000 civilians and jailing tens of thousands of others.

The private meeting between McCain and dictator Pinochet has gone previously un-reported anywhere.

According to a declassified U.S. Embassy cable secured by The Huffington Post, McCain described the meeting with Pinochet "as friendly and at times warm, but noted that Pinochet does seem obsessed with the threat of communism." McCain, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee at the time, made no public or private statements critical of the dictatorship, nor did he meet with members of the democratic opposition in Chile, as far as could be determined from a thorough check of U.S. and Chilean newspaper records and interviews with top opposition leaders.

At the time of the meeting, in the late afternoon of December 30, the U.S. Justice Department was seeking the extradition of two close Pinochet associates for an act of terrorism in Washington DC, the 1976 assassination of former ambassador to the U.S. and former Foreign Minister Orlando Letelier. The car bombing on Sheridan Circle in the U.S. capital was widely described at the time as the most egregious act of international terrorism perpetrated on U.S. soil by a foreign power.

At the time of McCain's meeting with Pinochet, Chile's democratic opposition was desperately seeking support from democratic leaders around the world in an attempt to pressure Pinochet to allow a return to democracy and force a peaceful end to the dictatorship, already in its 12th year. Other U.S. congressional leaders who visited Chile made public statements against the dictatorship and in support of a return to democracy, at times becoming the target of violent pro-Pinochet demonstrations.

Senator Edward Kennedy arrived only 12 days after McCain in a highly public show of support for democracy. Demonstrators pelted his entourage with eggs and blocked the road from the airport, so that the Senator had to be transported by helicopter to the city, where he met with Catholic church and human rights leaders and large groups of opposition activists.

Mark Schneider, a foreign policy aide and former State Department human rights official who organized Kennedy's trip, said he had no idea McCain had been there only days before. "It would be very surprising and disappointing if Senator McCain went to Chile to meet with a dictator and did not forcefully demand a return to democracy and then to publicly call for a return to democracy," Schneider said.

McCain's visit with Pinochet took place at a moment when the Chilean strongman held virtually unrestricted dictatorial power and those involved in public, democratic opposition were exposed to great risk.

McCain's presence in Chile was apparently kept as quiet as possible. He and his wife Cindy arrived December 27 and traveled immediately to the scenic Puyehue area of southern Chile to spend several days as the guest of a prominent Pinochet backer, Marco Cariola, who later was elected senator for the conservative UDI party.

The trip was arranged by Chile's ambassador to the United States, Hernan Felipe Errazuriz. According to a contemporary government document obtained from Chile, Errazuriz arranged for a special government liaison to help McCain while in Chile for the "strictly private" visit, and described him as "one of the conservative congressmen who is closest to our embassy."

Errazuriz also arranged the invitation for the McCains to stay at the farm of his wealthy friend, Marco Cariola, according to Cariola, who did not know McCain previously. The McCains spent the three and a half days fishing for salmon and trout and riding horses. The area is one of Chile's most beautiful tourist attractions, with dozens of crystal clear lakes and rivers surrounded by luxurious estates such as the Cariola farm where the McCains were staying.

On December 30, McCain traveled back to Santiago for a 5 pm meeting with dictator Pinochet, followed by a meeting with Admiral Jose Toribio Merino, a member of the country's ruling military junta.

McCain's meeting with Pinochet in 1985 are described in a U.S. embassy cable, based on McCain's debriefing with embassy officials:

"Most of his 30-minute meeting with the president, at which foreign minister [Jaime] Del Valle and a ministry staff member were present, was spent in discussing the dangers of communism, a subject about which the president seems obsessed. The President described Chile's recent history in the fight against communism and displayed considerable pride in the fact that the communist menace had been defeated in Chile. The President stressed that Chile had stood alone in this battle, and complained that United States Foreign Policy had left them stranded. The congressman added that talking to Pinochet was somewhat similar to talking with the head of the John Birch Society."

Other than to describe the warmth of the encounter, the cable does not contain any account of what McCain said to Pinochet. There is no indication that the subject of human rights or return to democracy was raised with Pinochet. At this time in history, Pinochet was overtly ostracized by most world democratic leaders because of his refusal to move toward a restoration of democratic, civilian rule.

A second declassified U.S. diplomatic cable refers to a letter from then-U.S. Ambassador Harry Barnes giving further detail of McCain's meeting with Pinochet.

From his meeting with junta member Merino, however, McCain passed on an tidbit of political intelligence that the embassy found useful. "The most interesting part of the conversation, according to the congressman, was Merino's statement that he and other members of the Junta had recently told Pinochet that he should not expect any support from the junta if he should decide to be a candidate for president in 1989."

In fact, three years later Pinochet was defeated in a plebiscite in which he was the only candidate, and free elections a year later restored democratic government. A healthy list of U.S. congressmen traveled to Chile in support of the transition to democracy, including Republican Senator Richard Lugar. McCain, by then a first term senator, did not return to Chile.
In addition to the Chilean document and the U.S. cable cited above, at least four other declassified documents refer to McCain's meeting with Pinochet and his interest in Chile.

McCain campaign press office said no one was available to comment on the story.

Former ambassador Errazuriz, reached by phone, said repeatedly "it is not true" that McCain met with Pinochet, that he would have known about it if it had, and that the state Department cable was possibly a fabrication.

On September 11, 1973, Army General Pinochet led a bloody coup that overthrew the democratically elected government of President Salvador Allende. The four-man military junta that seized power bombed the presidential palace, padlocked the congress, outlawed all political activity and actively persecuted its opponents. Pinochet remained in power until 1990 and in 2006 he was charged with 36 counts of kidnapping, 23 counts of torture and one count of murder. He was spared a trial for health reasons and died at age 91 in December 2006.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-dinges/mccain-meets-a-bloody-dic_b_137422.html

[Elok]

Anyone else remember that episode of the Simpsons where Lisa thinks she's genetically destined to become stupid? Specifically, the "When Buildings Collapse" show she watches with Bart and Homer that just shows edifice after edifice falling down to the tune of the 1812 Overture?

Tell me McCain's campaign isn't reminding you of that now.

[snoopy369]

Oh yes, that was a wonderful episode ... very sweet at the ending also

[Julian Delphiki]

McCain's Private Visit With Chilean Dictator Pinochet Revealed For First Time

Handshake pic coming soon?

[Darius871]

Wait, "dumbening"??? That's not even a word!

[Blaupanzer]

It's beginning to look like dominoes, each day another one goes down, hitting the next like the whole thing was planned. Not that I'm for McCain, but this is about as nightmarish as it can get without his "sexual slaves freeing themselves and speaking to the press" or something. Sheesh!

[Riesstiu IV]

Breaking news! An ancient Assyrian tablet recently excavated in the ruins of Nineveh has revealed that presidential hopeful McCain headed a committee that approved the sale of iron weapons to the Ashurbanipal regime.

[Imran Siddiqui]

John McCain, who has harshly criticized the idea of sitting down with dictators without pre-conditions

Not exactly... only dictators that who are the US's enemies. I don't think he'd care if Obama wanted to sit down with the King of Saudi Arabia without preconditions.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
It's beginning to look like dominoes, each day another one goes down, hitting the next like the whole thing was planned.

Hell, if you ever listen to the NWO conspiracy nuts for entertainment, they'd tell you this domino effect proves teh eeevil Illuminati globalists have cast Obama as "their man," and this is coming from people who think Bush is evil incarnate, so it's not a right-left thing.

Some even think Bush's "task" was to deliberately **** up the country both economically and in foreign policy as much as possible, for the sole purpose of ensuring that a charismatic and viscerally inspiring successor would have such a massive electoral mandate and such sincere trust among the public that he could get away with pushing through the most unpopular aspects of teh eeevil Illuminati's agenda in response to a manufactured crisis (which was subsequently "vindicated" by Biden's comments last week).

Not that I buy that crap personally, but it goes to show you how this guy's roaring success does just seem a little too perfect sometimes...