They're becoming a mob

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
I would condemn you for this shameful smear, but I'm not a boring hack who confuses high moral dudgeon with an actual, coherent argument. I'm not Boris, in other words.

So the guy who's aghast at Obama having a passing relationship with an "unrepentant terrorist" is talking about moral dudgeon?

And the guy who is falsely claiming that Obama said he and Ayers were "just neighbors," and is falsely asserting, against all logic, that Ayers appointed Obama to the foundation, even though they hadn't yet met, is talking about coherent arguments?

Kudos for making me literally laugh out loud

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
It takes a special kind of naivete to believe Ayers had no say whatsoever in the selection of the chairman for a board he acquired all the funding for.

The project's organizing committee asked Obama to serve as the board chairman in 1995. Annenberg Project Executive Director Ken Rollings said Ayers was not a member of that ad hoc group when the decision was made.

My mother is a major grant-writer, which is what Ayers was. Grant writers do not make decisions of who is on boards - that is the board's responsibility.

See, foundations like the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and any other one across the country divvy up responsibilities. To give everyone involved with every part of the organization a decision in who was involved with other parts of the organization, especially those whose jobs do not correlate, would be point- and fruitless.

Or do you know nothing about how hierarchies work?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
Yes, Obama just happened to work with Ayers at the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

So what? Lots of people did, including Republicans. The media has scoured the records and found that Ayers and Obama's interaction here was pretty small, certainly not remotely close to the level that would make it raise any eyebrows. At least not of anyone who didn't have an axe to grind.

Then he just happened to become acquainted with Alice Palmer, who just happened to anoint Obama her successor at a party hosted by Ayers.

So? What are you suggesting here? No one has ever made an issue of Obama knowing Alice Palmer. How is it relevant? I know several politicians. Ooooooh.

Obama also happened to work with Ayers again at the Woods Foundation (giving money to Jeremiah Wright and Bernadine Dohrn). If only the people in my neighborhood were so helpful...

Obama served on the Woods Fund from 1993-2002. Ayers didn't get involved until 1999, well after Obama's political career had started. And there's no evidence of which I'm aware that their connection there was anything other than coincidence. And, once again, several other prominent people served there.

It takes a special kind of naivete to believe Ayers had no say whatsoever in the selection of the chairman for a board he acquired all the funding for.

The selection was handled by Deborah Leff and Patricia Graham, who recruited and nominated Obama. As the NY Times reported, there is no evidence whatsoever that Ayers was involved with the recruitment or selection. If you have evidence that says otherwise, let's see it.

[Naked Gents Rut]

As much as I'd like to debate the murky details of Obama's hiring as chairman of the CAC board, I've gotten leave to go back to New York. So, I'll leave you with a little food for thought...

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/10/no-yards-and-a.html

http://globallabor.blogspot.com/2008/09/obamaayers-update-letters-show-bill.html

Money quote...

In fact, an exchange of letters in late 1994, copies of which I obtained from Brown University and links to which are provided below, between Vartan Gregorian, then President of Brown and the individual responsible for assessing applications for grants from the national Annenberg Challenge, and Bill Ayers, the founder of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, demonstrates that Ayers played a direct role in "composing" the Challenge's board of directors.

Another exchange of letters between Gregorian and Adele Simmons, then President of the Chicago-based MacArthur Foundation and an advisor to Ayers, confirms the active personal role of Ayers in selecting board members.

There's circumstantial evidence than Obama met Ayers as far back as 1987 and that Ayers had a say in selecting Obama as chairman of the CAC board. It sure would be nice to have the media look into this, given Obama's previous dissembling on the matter.

Later friends!

[-Jrabbit]

Ayers currently holds the title of Distiguished Professor in the College of Education at UIUC, and was named Chicago Citizen of the Year in 1997 by Mayor Daley for his work on the Annenberg Challenge.

Yes, the Weathermen set bombs. Yes, it was a communist organization. And yes, Ayers has stated that he still believes the group did not do enough in its protests against the Viet Nam war. Specifically:

Ayers was asked in a January 2004 interview, "How do you feel about what you did? Would you do it again under similar circumstances?" He replied: "I've thought about this a lot. Being almost 60, it's impossible to not have lots and lots of regrets about lots and lots of things, but the question of did we do something that was horrendous, awful? ... I don't think so. I think what we did was to respond to a situation that was unconscionable." On September 9, 2008, journalist Jake Tapper reported on the comic strip in Bill Ayers's blog explaining the soundbite: "The one thing I don't regret is opposing the war in Vietnam with every ounce of my being.... When I say, 'We didn't do enough,' a lot of people rush to think, 'That must mean, "We didn't bomb enough ****."' But that's not the point at all. It's not a tactical statement, it's an obvious political and ethical statement. In this context, 'we' means 'everyone.'"

[Boris Godunov]

Drake is running away because he's forced to resort to quoting right-wing nutjob bloggers (Steve Diamond) instead of actual media sources.

Dude, that's seriously weak. This would be akin to me linking to a diary from DailyKos as proof of anything.

The letters do not in any way support the notion that Ayers had anything to do with appointing Obama. In fact, the only letter from Ayers explicitly says the Board will appoint the chair, and we've already shown that Ayers wasn't on the board.

There's circumstantial evidence than Obama met Ayers as far back as 1987 and that Ayers had a say in selecting Obama as chairman of the CAC board.

There's not even circumstantial evidence, it's just unsupported innuendo:

In 1988 Bill Ayers was the coordinator of the ABCs Coalition which took the lead in pushing school reform. Barack Obama's group, the Developing Communities Project, was a member of that coalition. Obama was preparing to leave for Harvard but he wrote in "Dreams of My Father" that he spent his last time in Chicago working on a city-wide push for school reform.

So circumstantial evidence suggests the two men should have met.

"Should have met?" Why's that?

Truly scraping the bottom of the barrel there, Drake.

[Velociryx]

WOW! Two whole pages of this tripe since I went to the park....amazing.

You know...the more I think about this, the more I think I like it, and using the same yardstick, we could make a strong case against McCain's judgement, and maybe even make a case for his being a domestic terrorist, after all....someone yelled "kill him" re: a US Senator at one of his rallies, and he didn't say or do anything, which amounts to unspoken support.

Threatening to kill a US Senator IS a terrorist act, and one which McCain gave his unspoken consent for, so.....

I mean, what's good for the goose is surely good for the gander...

-=Vel=-

(hey...let's all make nonsense claims! fun!)
(or, we could talk about the Keating Five....no wait! That actually has some substance to it...wrong place to bring it up....)

[Boris Godunov]

I'm glad McCain chose to take the low road.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenumbers/2008/10/attack-blowback.html

Attack Blowback
October 12, 2008 6:02 PM

The McCain campaign’s more aggressive tone is prompting pushback from the public: Registered voters by a broad margin now believe John McCain is more focused on attacking his opponent than on addressing the issues in the 2008 presidential election.

Barack Obama, by contrast, is perceived even more widely as sticking to the issues, this new ABC News/Washington Post poll finds – a striking point of differentiation between the two. More differences will be reported in the full release of this ABC/Post poll on ABCNews.com at 12:01 a.m. and Good Morning America on Monday morning.

While McCain’s image as the more negative of the two is not new, it’s sharpened considerably, coinciding with his campaign’s more pointed criticisms of Obama in the last few weeks, including Sarah Palin's accusation that Obama’s been "palling around with terrorists."

Registered voters by a 24-point margin, 59-35 percent, now say McCain is more focused on attacking his opponent rather than addressing the issues. That’s grown from a roughly even 48-45 percent split on this question in late August.

There's far less criticism of the tone of Obama's campaign: Registered voters by 68-26 percent say he's mainly addressing the issues, not attacking his opponent, a slightly more positive rating than in August.

Candidate is mainly:
Addressing the issues vs. Attacking his opponent Now:
McCain 35% 59
Obama 68 26

8/22:
McCain 45% 48
Obama 64 29


PARTISAN – It’s noteworthy that Republicans, despite their general antipathy toward Obama, don't broadly see him as running a negative campaign; they divide essentially evenly on the question, 44-46 percent. Democrats, by contrast, overwhelmingly say McCain's going negative, 80-16 percent.

And for more delight:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/republican-leaders-break-ranks--with-mccain-959301.html

Republican leaders break ranks with McCain

By Stephen Foley in New York
Monday, 13 October 2008

Senior members of the Republican party are in open mutiny against John McCain's presidential campaign, after a disastrous period which has seen Barack Obama solidify his lead in the opinion polls.


And as disputes raged within the McCain camp yesterday, Democrats took another symbolic step towards healing the party after their bitter primary battles, as Bill and Hillary Clinton made their first joint appearance in support of Mr Obama.

From inside and outside his inner circle, Mr McCain is being told to settle on a coherent economic message and to tone down attacks on his rival which have sometimes whipped up a mob-like atmosphere at Republican rallies.

Two former rivals for the party nomination, Mitt Romney and Tommy Thompson, went on the record over the weekend about the disarray in the Republican camp. And a string of other senior party figures said Mr McCain's erratic performance risks taking the party down to heavy losses not just in the presidential race but also in contests for Congressional seats. Mr Thompson, a former governor of the swing state of Wisconsin, said he thought Mr McCain, on his present trajectory, would lose the state, and he told a New York Times reporter he was not happy with the campaign. "I don't know who is," he added.

Some Republicans seeking election to Congress have begun distancing themselves from Mr McCain. In Nebraska, a Republican representative, Lee Terry, ran a newspaper ad featuring support from a woman who called herself an "Obama-Terry voter".

McCain has managed to make himself a figure to be shunned by his own party, just like Bush. Way to go.

[Kidlicious]

It's the kind of tragedy that you just want to look away from but you can't.

[DinoDoc]

[Velociryx]

Now that's what I'm talking about.

Thank you, DD, for injecting some badly needed levity into this thread.

Well worth the watch.

-=Vel=-

[The Emperor Fabulous]

GOP Site Endorses E-mail Smears, Said 'Waterboard Obama'
By Sarah Lai Stirland EmailOctober 15, 2008 | 7:39:16 PMCategories: Election '08

The website of a local California Republican party has posted a message openly calling for the torture of Barack Obama, while reporting as fact a slew of long-ago debunked smears targeting the Democratic presidential candidate.
Waterboard_2_3
The Sacramento County Republican Party called for Obama's torture.
Image: Sacramento County Republican Party

The Sacramento County Republican Party hosted a graphic this week comparing Obama to Osama bin Laden, with the caption "The only difference between Obama and Osama is BS,"The Sacramento Bee reports. The text of the graphic adds, "Waterboard Barack Obama."

That image was removed Tuesday in response to inquiries from the newspaper, but the site continues to report false claims, quotes and images about Obama, including the assertion that he snubbed troops on a visit to the Middle East, and that he refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

E-mail smears have targeted Obama's patriotism since his presidential run began, but the Sacramento website appears to be the first case of the smears being openly adopted by an official GOP organization. The attacks come as polling shows voters growing increasingly impatient with the perceived negative tone of Obama rival John McCain's campaign, following attacks seeking to link Obama to a former 1960's radical.

Hitting the patriotism button is a time-honored political tactic to undermine support for the other side among Republican party professionals, says Stefan Forbes, a moviemaker who recently completed "Boogieman: The Lee Atwater Story," a film that documents such tactics. "But this time around, it may be that the global meltdown might overcome that, and that's the interesting thing," says Forbes.

The party site bolsters its false claim that Obama refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance with an equally false quote attributed to the candidate. "I don't want to be perceived as taking sides. There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a war-like message."

The text is actually from a satirical column that ran in The Arizona Conservative, according to urban legend mythbusters Snopes.com.

Other fallacious "primary evidence" the site presents includes two fabricated quotes attributed to Obama's book The Audacity of Hope, and a report from a U.S. intelligence officer claiming that Obama blew off soldiers when he visited the troops at the Bagram Airforce base in Afghanistan. That letter was debunked by the New York Daily News, which reported in July that the letter's author admitted that the "information that was put out in my e-mail was wrong."

A photo hosted on the site depicts Obama holding a telephone receiver to his ear backwards. "When you are faking a pose for a photo-op, you'd think he can at least get the phone turned in the right direction!," the caption reads. The image is an altered version of a genuine photo in which Obama is seen using the phone properly.

Craig MacGlashan, the chairman of the Sacramento Republican County Party, is responsible for the site. MacGlashan, a lawyer, wasn't answering phone calls on Wednesday, according to his receptionist, and he didn't respond to a a voice mail inquiry.

Obama and McCain are squaring off Wednesday night in their third and final presidential debate before the November 4 election.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

I believe all of that and won't vote for McCain because of it.

[Riesstiu IV]

Instead of taking their anger out on Obama, why don't these Republican supporters reflect on why McCain is losing in the polls? Hint, these last few years haven't been to kind on the Republican party.

[DaShi]

When have the Republican not resorted to whinging?