They're becoming a mob

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
CNN reporter Drew Griffin: What I can tell you from two people who were actually there is that, number one, former [Democratic] state senator Alice Palmer says she in no way organized this meeting. She was invited and attended it briefly.

I'm prepared to concede that point, but I had read otherwise from some sources. In any event, it doesn't remotely change the overall point I made, which is that hosting one meet-and-greet for Obama doesn't remotely elevate Ayers to "most important" status, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Naked Gents Rut]

I'm sure Ayers allowing Obama to serve as chairman of a multi-million dollar educational reform effort in no way increased Obama's public visibility and chances of successfully running for political office.

[GePap]

Boris, why are you still arguing with these two buffoons? I mean, do you really think it matters one ****ing bit how much Obama worked with Bill Ayers in the 1990's and 2000's, by which time Bill Ayers was a well known individual respected for his work on education and reforming the juvenile penal system?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut


You really are delusional. You just got done saying that the event at Ayer's house where Alice Palmer named Obama as her successor was the only political link between Ayers and Obama. The CNN report explicitly argues against that.

Quoted for posterity...

How does the video say otherwise?

The work for Annenberg wasn't political. Obama wasn't a politician then, and neither was Ayers. The purpose of the projects were education reform. And their interaction on that project was entirely coincidental. How on earth does this work in any way support your assertion that Ayers was "one of the most important" supporters of Obama?

[Naked Gents Rut]

Boris, why are you still arguing with these two buffoons?

Yeah, he should just give up. He's not going to beat us with the weak **** he be bringing, yo.

How does the video say otherwise?

Are you deaf? Did you miss when Griffin said...

For Obama, the chairmanship of the $100 million Annenberg board helped vault him from a South Side lawyer to political player.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut




Wow, you really are a smart one. Is this some sort of coded attempt to imply that McCain is really a homosexual? How dare you, sir!

Ok, you got me. I misstyped. Strawmen is of course what I meant.

McCain being a closeted homo would explain the outbursts of anger, of course.

[Naked Gents Rut]

McCain being a closeted homo would explain the outbursts of anger, of course.

I would condemn you for this shameful smear, but I'm not a boring hack who confuses high moral dudgeon with an actual, coherent argument. I'm not Boris, in other words.

[GePap]

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/fox_poll_ayers_not_hurting_oba.php

Fox Poll: Nearly Two-Thirds Say Ayers Makes No Difference To Their Vote
By Greg Sargent and Eric Kleefeld - October 10, 2008, 2:44PM
These numbers, buried in the internals of a new Fox News poll out today, are the first time a national poll has tried to gauge the impact of Barack Obama's association with William Ayers. And the numbers are pretty bad for McCain:

There has been some discussion of Barack Obama's relationship with the former radical activist William Ayers. Because Ayers is linked to plots to bomb the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol in the 1970s, and because Ayres recently said he wished he had done more, some people say Obama's association with Ayers calls into question his judgment. Does Obama's connection with Ayers make you less likely to vote for him for president or does it not really make a difference to your vote?
Less Likely 32%

No Difference 61%

Strikingly, the numbers are worse for McCain among independents: Only 29% say the Ayers association makes them less likely to vote for Obama, and more than twice as many -- 64% -- say it makes no difference. The data suggests that the vast majority of the respondents saying it makes them less likely to vote for Obama are Republicans, who probably wouldn't have supported him anyway.

Meanwhile, the poll suggests that McCain's attacks could be blowing back on him: A majority -- 51% -- say he's running a negative campaign, as compared to only 21% who say that about Obama.

Our handy TPM Election Central calculator tells us that the number of voters think McCain is running a negative campaign is nearly double that of the number who care about McCain's primary attack line right now. Go figure.

Could it be that voters have something on their minds other than the question of what a former violent radical who's now respected in Chicago was doing when Obama was walking around in shortpants?

Late Update: A quick additional point on this. Obviously this attack isn't really about Ayers; it's about sowing vague doubts about Obama's patriotism and background. Whether that dimension of the attack is working is harder to measure, and may not be perfectly reflected in the answers to direct pollster questions about Ayers. Still, the above numbers are striking.

Not only is this a moronic non-issue, but even the average american voter, who is certainly not generally known for being able to differentiate between real issues and crap still sees right through this non-issue.

But hey, you and DD can pride yourselves in being part of the bottom 32 percentile

[Naked Gents Rut]

But hey, you and DD can pride yourselves in being part of the bottom 32 percentile

Strangely enough, I feel fine with being in the bottom 32nd percentile as I type in this Ivy League library.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
I'm sure Ayers allowing Obama to serve as chairman of a multi-million dollar educational reform effort in no way increased Obama's public visibility and chances of successfully running for political office.

How, how you're so wrong yet again:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/07/obama.ayers/index.html

The project's organizing committee asked Obama to serve as the board chairman in 1995. Annenberg Project Executive Director Ken Rollings said Ayers was not a member of that ad hoc group when the decision was made.

There is no evidence that Ayers had anything to do with Obama receiving that appointment. In fact the timeline of their relationship says they hadn't met before then, so why would he have anything to do with it?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut


Strangely enough, I feel fine with being in the bottom 32nd percentile as I type in this Ivy League library.

Why would an NYU student be using the Columbia University Library? (Cause, hate to break it to you, but NYU isn't in the Ivy League).

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
Are you deaf? Did you miss when Griffin said...

I'm not deaf, but you're clearly dumb. Just because Obama went on to a career in politics doesn't make the Annenberg work political. By that logic, Jesse Ventura's wrestingly career was "political."

[Naked Gents Rut]

Why would an NYU student be using the Columbia University Library?

Who said anything about being in Butler? I'm at Princeton for a weekend conference.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


How, how you're so wrong yet again:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/07/obama.ayers/index.html

There is no evidence that Ayers had anything to do with Obama receiving that appointment. In fact the timeline of their relationship says they hadn't met before then, so why would he have anything to do with it?

Um, you ignoring this part, Drake?

Because when I said you're ignoring substance, this is the kind of thing I was alluding to (really, outright saying).

Want to comment?

[Naked Gents Rut]

Just because Obama went on to a career in politics doesn't make the Annenberg work political.

Yes, Obama just happened to work with Ayers at the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Then he just happened to become acquainted with Alice Palmer, who just happened to anoint Obama her successor at a party hosted by Ayers. Obama also happened to work with Ayers again at the Woods Foundation (giving money to Jeremiah Wright and Bernadine Dohrn). If only the people in my neighborhood were so helpful...

Want to comment?

It takes a special kind of naivete to believe Ayers had no say whatsoever in the selection of the chairman for a board he acquired all the funding for.