House rejects Bailout; DOW drops 650

[Kidlicious]

Bush isn't helping by speaking to the nation again. As usual he deserves most of the blame.

[Arrian]

Actually, I really don't think that's true. And I loathe the man.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

There were some demonstrations yesterday.

[Lancer]

Look at the guy with the mask. Terrorist.

[snoopy369]

I have to say, I don't entirely disagree with the bail-out-people-not-banks theory. Although one good thing of the bailout is it was doing some of this, I have to wonder whether a better solution might not be:
1. Give tax incentives to banks to forgive loan payments or otherwise fix bad mortgage situations
2. Buy directly defaulting mortgages (not the securities or anything else, only the actual mortgage) and then forgive/work out payment plans for defaultors.

A thorough enough plan of this nature should restore confidence AND keep people in homes...

[Patroklos]

In order for us to emerge healthy from this mess, those people need to be out of their homes.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lancer
Look at the guy with the mask. Terrorist.

Paulson? It does look like him!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos
In order for us to emerge healthy from this mess, those people need to be out of their homes.

Any reason you believe that?

[Patroklos]

Any reason you believe that?

The people can't afford them, so why burden them with it? People who bought homes with teaser interest rates and no down payment are no less at fault than the banks who offered such terms in the fist place. BOTH need to be purged.

Home ownership simply doesn't make sense for some people. There is nothing wrong with renting when it does make sense (I am one of these people). This home ownership is the end all be all BS has ruined so many lives it is ridiculous.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Kidicious
There were some demonstrations yesterday.

Not exactly sure how you bail out people not banks in a quick and efficient manner that eases the credit crunch... that and the idiots who took out mortgages that they couldn't afford aren't any better than the CEOs.

(I can see bailing out people who took out sensible loans, but are going to lose them because they lost jobs. The guys that never really had a chance to pay their homes... )

[Kidlicious]

I was really interested in how you think that's going to help.

It seems to me that most of the people losing their homes were paying what they could. Now a lot of those people aren't paying anything at all. The banks are losing because they have to have firesales. The only people who make out are the speculators.

[snoopy369]

I think the problem is not that (some of these) people don't belong as homeowners, it's that they can't afford the cost of house they have. Personally I think it should be much easier to own a home than it is, but that's the little tiny socialist streak in my otherwise conservative/libertarian beliefs

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Not exactly sure how you bail out people not banks in a quick and efficient manner that eases the credit crunch...

Yeah, some of them are hooked on credit like a drug. They still want to be able to buy things that they can't afford. The credit industry is way too big at this point. Everything the credit industry makes is sucked off of the rest of us. We can't continue like that forever.

that and the idiots who took out mortgages that they couldn't afford aren't any better than the CEOs.

I won't bother to say who's better, a CEO of a financial corporations, or a regular person like myself, but I'm going to side with the regular person like myself everytime. Also, it's much worse to lose your house than it is to loose your job when you are already rich.

[Arrian]

that and the idiots who took out mortgages that they couldn't afford aren't any better than the CEOs

I'm pissed at stupid people too, but I'd hold the CEOs to a higher standard. They're supposed to be experts.

Perhaps there is merit to the idea that "distressed" mortgages should be renegotiated. Salvage what you can for both parties (both of whom ****ed up). Neither will like it, but both can live with it. Some will be unsalvagable, and that's just dead wood you need to clear.

Then, going forward, put an end to some of the more ridiculous practices that were going on.

The thing is, the mortgage renegotiation thing will take a while, right? Apparently, the key to the bailout is that it needs to happen fast to recapitalize banks *right now* to stave off a credit crisis that will quickly result in a ton of lost jobs (and a whole lot more people who now can't make their payments). Am I misunderstanding this?

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

I was really interested in how you think that's going to help.

Not having people pouring out their lifes blood to pay for mortgages that are breaking them through their greed and/or pride maybe?

Rent something marginally smaller for half the cost and bank the remiander for a down payment/fixed interest rate homer purchase in ten years. Oh, and have a resevior of cash available until you buy in the meantime.

Perhaps there is merit to the idea that "distressed" mortgages should be renegotiated. Salvage what you can for both parties (both of whom ****ed up). Neither will like it, but both can live with it. Some will be unsalvagable, and that's just dead wood you need to clear.

I am not against helping homeowners with 1.) a fixed rate 2.) a proper down payment and 3.) a respectable income/debt ratio at time of purchase. If you lack any of those three, **** you.