My plan to save American democracy

[chequita guevara]

Something has to exist in order to be saved.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Arrian


You have just argued forcefully for ELITISM. What is the Fed? A bunch of experts. Put another way, they're a bunch of edjumacated, big-city know-it-alls with fat resumes, making decisions that affect the entire country.

I thought that was bad.

-Arrian

I just wanted to say something which I took for granted and did not explicitly say. I HONESTLY believed almost every American can learn enough about the big issues, to make an informed decision. I do not believe a high threshold of knowledge is needed to make an informed decision, but most people fall far short of it now.

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
Something has to exist in order to be saved.

Good point. If you want, you can rename the thread in your head. "My plan to establish democracy in America by educating the electorate", which is what I really mean.

[Arrian]

The people have to want it. They have to want to spend the time educating themselves about the issues. You can try to help people do it, of course, but in the end it means people will have to choose to spend time on stuff that is boring and hard.

This goes for me too. I'm more informed than most, but I too have my limit.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Oh, and btw: if a "liberal" called the average American a "borderline redneck" he/she would be tarred and feathered. A conservative, apparently, can do it and - get this! - use the comment to mock liberals for being out of touch.

-Arrian

[Aeson]

Remove voting age requirement, write-in (or rather type-in) ballots only. At least then people will have to know the name of who they are voting for, and how to spell it. (And those youngsters who do know, won't be locked out.)

At worst we get Miley Cyrus as president on the Disney ticket. Breaks up the 2 party system.

[Aeson]

Speaking of Disney:

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Arrian
The people have to want it. They have to want to spend the time educating themselves about the issues. You can try to help people do it, of course, but in the end it means people will have to choose to spend time on stuff that is boring and hard.

This goes for me too. I'm more informed than most, but I too have my limit.

-Arrian

If it is done in an approachable, easy and entertaining matter, it can work. I've read books on topics I knew nothing about and enjoyed them. Informative books can still be entertaining.

If we want people to do it, it has to be easy and entertaining. The entertainment part comes from good writing of the proposed book+website. The easy factor will come both from the simplicity of the book but ALSO from the fact that every American will quite literally get a copy for free, whether they want it or not. People are much more likely to read a book they do not have to run out and by, especially if there is hype about it.

If everyone in America is mailed a book, a fair chunk of people are going to read it simply because everyone got a copy of it. It will become an issue of national discussion.

Originally posted by Aeson
Remove voting age requirement, write-in (or rather type-in) ballots only. At least then people will have to know the name of who they are voting for, and how to spell it. (And those youngsters who do know, won't be locked out.)

At worst we get Miley Cyrus as president on the Disney ticket. Breaks up the 2 party system.

Not a terrible idea, there are some issues of course, like spelling, multiple people with the same name etc but is it realistic to expect every local and state govmt to modify their election law? A federal law could not impose this. Each state is free to organize it's voting system as they want, with some minor regulation.

[Aeson]

No, it's not realistic to expect any solution to the current system to come out of the current system, or for the system to change very rapidly at all.

(The same name problem wouldn't be much of a problem as people would still need to be on the ballot. If there were two with the same name, then a picture/age could be displayed for both with a prompt to clarify who it was you are voting for. As for the spelling, I'd rather just not count the votes if the voter can't spell it correctly. Of course that might lead to election of people with easily spelled names... like Bush. )

[Vesayen]

I do not think my plan would do it rapidly. It would take time. If a portion of the American populace becomes informed, some small faction of them will run for office, they will also influence their friends and communities. Changes to state and local government will affect the national government over time as people are more easily able to tell when they are being lied to, manipulated or exploited. Won’t happen a year, but it won’t take 15.

The idea is to raise the level of awareness and political discoure in the country, which will have other changes, over time.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Vesayen


You are saying that now, people will go out and vote for whoever promises them good things now. Most people now are not informed, I do not care what uninformed people do.

I care about what informed people do. I believe that informed people, on the issues of substantial weight and importance, will be less short sighted.

And I'm saying you are wrong.

[Harry Tuttle]

It is frustrating to see how ignorant the masses are of the actual issues and know I can do nothing to change this and that no one is making a real effort to do so. I've thought about how this might be done and come up blank for years but I had this idea 2 years ago...

This is the idea. Hire an author, a group of authors and others who you will need to write a book which explains the basics of the constitution and how our government works in a simple, entertaining, interesting and easy to understand manner.

Knowing how our government works and knowing the issues are two different things. You could easily have a number of voters who aced high school civics, but have them know nothing about simple economics, basic engineering, etc.

So basically you might have a bunch of idiots talking about paying for oodles of government projects by cutting incentives for oil companies while being totally full of crap.

Oh wait. THIS ALREADY HAPPENS. My God, more liberal elitist crap. It's a government for the people, not those who have been indoctrinated.

[Vesayen]

Understanding the issues and understanding the functioning of the government are 2 different things-who said otherwiswe? Both are neccesary to cast an informed vote. I do not want to indoctrinate anyone. I want to teach people what they need to make an informed vote. Many of them will disagree with my own views, that is fine. An informed populace will ultimatley, make better decisions and result in a more responsive and less corrupt government.

Educating the public is not neccesarily indoctrination. Is every class in our public education system, indoctrination?

"Its a government for the people, not those who have been indoctrinated." I am glad we agree. The masses are tricked into voting for their canidate by whichever campaign most succesfully manipulates the media into tricking the American people to vote based on vague concepts which have nothing to do with democracy or America.

[SlowwHand]

Why don't we just bring back the poll tax? Would that float your boat?

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by Vesayen
Understanding the issues and understanding the functioning of the government are 2 different things-who said otherwiswe? Both are neccesary to cast an informed vote. I do not want to indoctrinate anyone. I want to teach people what they need to make an informed vote. Many of them will disagree with my own views, that is fine. An informed populace will ultimatley, make better decisions and result in a more responsive and less corrupt government.

Educating the public is not neccesarily indoctrination. Is every class in our public education system, indoctrination?

"Its a government for the people, not those who have been indoctrinated." I am glad we agree. The masses are tricked into voting for their canidate by whichever campaign most succesfully manipulates the media into tricking the American people to vote based on vague concepts which have nothing to do with democracy or America.

I call douchebaggery.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Why don't we just bring back the poll tax? Would that float your boat?

No.