My plan to save American democracy

[Vesayen]

When people vote Republican I want to throw my hands up the air in frustration and yell at the top of my lungs "HOW STUPID ARE YOU?" This applies to 9 and a half out of 10 Republicans, some of them vote Republican based on the issues. However immediatly after doing that, I want to throw my hands up in the air in frustration AGAIN and yell "VOTERS-HOW STUPID ARE YOU?". This applies to 9 and nine tenths of every voter, because NONE of the voters vote based on ACTUAL knowledge of the issues.

Political inactivity, combinend with general ignorance, combined with corporate interestests controllingn the media who are activley trying to trick the American people, combined with a HUGE heaping of apathy, has killed democracy in America.

I am not questioning the value of democracy or demanding anything as absurd as a change in the government, but I think I've lost faith in democracy in America. The winner is the one who is able to gerry mander the best, use the media to trick people into voting them, best manipulate the system and in every way distract voters from actual issues, on both sides of the party line, this goes from the local town level all the way up to the executive.

I could spend every waking moment trying to inform people of the ACTUAL issues and educating them on them and i'd never make a dent because I have no effective way to reach the masses. The only way anyone can is via the media or the internet. The media is not an option because they are either controlled by corporate interests who want to influence people, or because they are selling news as entertainment and fear to discuss complex political issues beyond "Fire bad, candy good". Informing people via the internet requires people actually go look for information, most people do not dig at all.

It is frustrating to see how ignorant the masses are of the actual issues and know I can do nothing to change this and that no one is making a real effort to do so. I've thought about how this might be done and come up blank for years but I had this idea 2 years ago.

I have ONE idea which I think may help, but it would require a lot of money from either a group which is apolitical or a single apolitical individual funding it. It is far more likely you can get a single wealthy person who will be neutral in politics, then a wealthy group.

This is the idea. Hire an author, a group of authors and others who you will need to write a book which explains the basics of the constitution and how our government works in a simple, entertaining, interesting and easy to understand manner. Some computer/web friendly format would be made at the same time, to help foster discussion and to provide additional information for those who look for it. The key here is simplicity, it has to be as simple as possible so the average American will actually read it. It also needs to be entertaining so people will actually read it. Also explain some of the big concerns we face today as a nation. Then print enough copies of this book to mail to every home in the country.

A media campaign would be launched at the same time, talk show hosts discussing it, commercials etc, to encourage people to actually read it.

A web infrastructure would also be financed at the same time with a large staff, essentially a "how to run for local office" support network, helpinng anyone who wants to run for local political office, run for office. The idea is that a fresh infusion of Americans into local government will make the entire country more politically active, more interested in the issues and more informed. It may also help prevent gerry mandering as an informed public would never allow it to happen. The effect would be cumulative. It is an expensive undertaking but not beyond the grips of some of the ultra wealthy. Some of them make substantial contributions to charities, substantial enough to pay for something like this.

In the (very) unlikely event I ever become ultra rich, I would finance this myself.

I see American democracy as dead because the populace is not informed, is apathetic and is activley being deceived, does anyone else have any other plans to remedy the problem, no matter how outlandish? They can be outlandish, as long as they are within the realm of possibility.

[snoopy369]

Democracy doesn't work all that well because people are inherently selfish and shortsighted. That will never change, ever.

However, as was famously said, it's better than any other, because any system where a smaller number of people have power will fail due to their greed/shortsightedness, even if it takes a while because of a few good eggs. At least in a democracy it's consistent, and some decisions have to at least appear to benefit everyone to some extent ...

[Tuberski]

What's a longue?

ACK!

[Vesayen]

My problem is not with people being short sighted and selfish. I am not sure people are always short sighted and selfish when it comes to politics, but I would say I do not care about that.

My problem in America is no one is informed, most are not politically active, also the killer A, Apathy.

I would be happy to see an INFORMED and politically active American populace who were short sighted and selfish, however I believe an informed populace will be less short sighted. A degree of selfishness is perfectly acceptable, the constitution protects us some ways against the tyranny of the majority.

I want people to know the issues and understand them. The vast majority do not know the issues.

[CrONoS]

People are rationally uninformed!

[Victor Galis]

Well, in rational terms: the chance of being the swing voter who determines the outcome is close to nil, and the cost of information is non-trivial. Thus, the odds that informing yourself leads to better government is miniscule but the cost isn't.

[SlowwHand]

Let me offer up an observation.

If, as has been obsevrved, people are short-sighted and selfish, swayed by their own self-interests, if the majority are swayed in a like manner, isn't that really democracy? Isn't what the majority desires the goal?

[Vesayen]

Most people I have met are not informed. I have of course met many people who are informed. You are assuming that because someone is selfish, that their selfishness will be self destructive. I’ve met environmentalists who are environmentalists because they believe it necessary for self preservation. Informed people can be selfish, but if they are informed they will often hold views which are opposed to their IMMEDIATE interest, in favor of a much more substantial interest down the road. Who would vote to give everyone a ten trillion dollar treasury note now when it will cause impossible inflation, as opposed to maintaining inflation?

I believe that when the majority is informed, they will usually vote for things which are in their general self interest in the long term.

I don’t care what people vote about, as long as they are INFORMED when they vote. I have confidence that informed people will generally make good decisions, even if I disagree with them on their specific views. I’ll change an old adage. I may not agree with what you say but I will respect to the death your right to say it…. as long as you are informed.

Informed people are also more likely to be politically active and hold corrupt politicians responsible.

[ramseya]

I am tired of hearing this same thing from liberal after liberal... It was something said a million times in 2004. There's no way Kerry will lose the election, look how unpopular Bush is and how the economy is suffering and he took us into an unpopular war, all the while trying to hoodwink people with the sanctity of marriage law but no one will fall for that!

Result: Bush won.

Now, you liberals want to say the American people not only have been hoodwinked but they are stupid and don't know any of the issues. McCain is only up in polls because of this stupidity when Obama has logic and reason and the true beliefs of the American people on his side, people just don't know it!

The fact is, the American people are a very conservative people, something that is forgotten by you ivory tower liberals living in the yuppie districts of major cities. Hell, I live in a major city that hasn't elected a Republican mayor since the early 1950's, and I, too, have gotten used to the idea that most people are liberals (although the strong anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, conservative streak among Democratic minorities shows even these liberals aren't quite). I seem to be the only Republican in the entire city sometimes, not realizing that outside of the metropolitan areas, conservatism is dominant.

My point is that democracy is not in danger, as you see it, because people are stupid and being hoodwinked. You simply can't understand how or why you're prized beliefs that you are so sure are right are not always on the platform of those elected. You never realize that you and other liberals are the ones out of touch with the common American citizen that is, frankly, a borderline redneck.

Why do you think "Liberal" is a dirty word that even Democratic politicians rarely if ever use, while "Conservative" is almost a compliment?

and anyway, if you check out a great site like factcheck.org, you'll see that liberals make crap up just as much as conservatives do and there are plenty of mis-informed Obama supporters.

[ramseya]

And here's the problem with the whole informed issue... Take the economy, which is being seen as the biggest issue right now, and liberals from Obama's camp constantly go on CNN and MSNBC talking about how Obama is right on the economy and McCain's economic thinking (by way of Phil Gramm) has gotten us to this situation. Even a not quite as biased pundit like Chris Matthews has devoted the last two days' of Hardball to the economy, dissecting McCain's "Fundamentals of the Economy" comment, and putting up employment and budget stats comparing the start of the Bush presidency to now.

The implication is that Republican economic policy isn't right and Obama's is.

The problem is that the facts, the science of economics, as it is formulated today, is on the Republican side and de-regulation, not raising taxes, using monetary policy, etc.

Now most Americans obviously don't hold bachelor's or master's in economics and so no one is actually informed. Here is a case in which being un-informed might cause the American people to vote against their long-term best interests and vote for Obama.

It goes both ways.

[Vesayen]

Ramseya.

In response to your first post, it simply has no baring on what has been said. 99.(fractional remainder) of the public is uninformed and ignorant of the issues, whether they are democrats or republicans is unimportant. NO one has a clue. I do not even understand what you are saying, your post is an attack on liberals. Who said I am "liberal"? You are making the fairly typical argument of "No, YOUR side sucks!", "liberal" v "conservative" is moot here, it is about being informed. You are attacking liberals for things which have not been said here, or implied.

As to your second post. By informed I mean:

1. A basic understanding of the functioning of the constitution, the government and a basic understanding of American history
2. A basic understanding of "big" topics, what the different views are and the justification and evidence in support of those views.

Anyone can understand the basics of economic policy enough to make an informed decision, without a bachelors in economics.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Vesayen
My problem is not with people being short sighted and selfish. I am not sure people are always short sighted and selfish when it comes to politics, but I would say I do not care about that.

My problem in America is no one is informed, most are not politically active, also the killer A, Apathy.

I would be happy to see an INFORMED and politically active American populace who were short sighted and selfish, however I believe an informed populace will be less short sighted. A degree of selfishness is perfectly acceptable, the constitution protects us some ways against the tyranny of the majority.

I want people to know the issues and understand them. The vast majority do not know the issues.

My point is that, because people are shortsighted and selfish, it does not matter if you inform them, because you're talking about long-term things. They already have the short-term things generally - Obama promises them a tax cut, McCain promises a safe iraq, whatever. That's what gets the votes out, and that's what people want.

[ramseya]

Anyone can understand the basics of economic policy enough to make an informed decision, without a bachelors in economics.

Actually, while a BS/BA in economics might not be necessary, taking Macro 101 and Micro 101 honestly probably is, and even that probably isn't even sufficient. It's amazing how rare it is to find someone who even comprehends the full implications of supply and demand. They might get that when something is highly demanded, the price will be higher until more firms supply it, but concepts like equilibrium, elasticity, how price controls affect equilibrium, or even that supply and demand functions outside of goods (ie- in the labor market) are unknown, let alone an understanding of things like Engel curves and Marshallian demand functions.

Now that I think about it, thank freaking god for the Federal Reserve. I wouldn't trust the American people or its proxies (Congress) with ANY economic decision! Maybe something like gay marriage or abortion which are more gut-check issues... or nuclear power which the benefits and harms can be easily communicated and understood without the need for an understanding of the intricacies of nuclear power generation... but economics, no.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by snoopy369


My point is that, because people are shortsighted and selfish, it does not matter if you inform them, because you're talking about long-term things. They already have the short-term things generally - Obama promises them a tax cut, McCain promises a safe iraq, whatever. That's what gets the votes out, and that's what people want.

You are saying that now, people will go out and vote for whoever promises them good things now. Most people now are not informed, I do not care what uninformed people do.

I care about what informed people do. I believe that informed people, on the issues of substantial weight and importance, will be less short sighted.

Originally posted by ramseya


Actually, while a BS/BA in economics might not be necessary, taking Macro 101 and Micro 101 honestly probably is, and even that probably isn't even sufficient. It's amazing how rare it is to find someone who even comprehends the full implications of supply and demand. They might get that when something is highly demanded, the price will be higher until more firms supply it, but concepts like equilibrium, elasticity, how price controls affect equilibrium, or even that supply and demand functions outside of goods (ie- in the labor market) are unknown, let alone an understanding of things like Engel curves and Marshallian demand functions.

Now that I think about it, thank freaking god for the Federal Reserve. I wouldn't trust the American people or its proxies (Congress) with ANY economic decision! Maybe something like gay marriage or abortion which are more gut-check issues... or nuclear power which the benefits and harms can be easily communicated and understood without the need for an understanding of the intricacies of nuclear power generation... but economics, no.

Economics is complicated, generally. In my proposed book/system the book would cover the basics of the view points on issues of pure economics, the most basic of the view points and then refer to a user friendly website, for a longer and more complicated, but still relatively simple expiation. The view points would be listed, X and Y with the very basic justification and then some reference to a website ala "Enter code Econ-4 in the box on the site for more on this."

[Arrian]

Now that I think about it, thank freaking god for the Federal Reserve. I wouldn't trust the American people or its proxies (Congress) with ANY economic decision! Maybe something like gay marriage or abortion which are more gut-check issues

You have just argued forcefully for ELITISM. What is the Fed? A bunch of experts. Put another way, they're a bunch of edjumacated, big-city know-it-alls with fat resumes, making decisions that affect the entire country.

I thought that was bad.

-Arrian