Anderson Cooper to pimp slap Obama tonight

[Ramo]

Poorest senators by what definition, exactly? You know lobbyist stuff doesn't exactly get reported on the balance sheet...

By reported income. And if the "lobbyist stuff" is significant, it eventually gets on the balance sheet. You have to do laundry at some point.

Using this method you could rationalize any influence peddling by lobbyists. The business is a big employer for my state so anything that's good for them is good for my state. That's sad.

As I was saying, if constituents' jobs don't matter, ideology doesn't either. In which case, the GOP is far more ****ed wrt to lobbyist influence than Biden.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Poorest senators by what definition, exactly? You know lobbyist stuff doesn't exactly get reported on the balance sheet...

U.S. News and World Report has Biden as the poorest. LINK

Frist is Number 5, though. I thought he came from an uberwealthy family. I'd have thought Frist would be swimming in cash.

[Ramo]

Apparently it matters plenty when people say Texas lawmakers (like the President) are in the pockets of Big Oil.

I don't know what your argument is. Last I checked, Bush has a national constituency.

The question is whether Biden regularly trades favors with lobbyists in general, not whether he's trying to secure jobs for his constituents at the expense of everyone else, i.e. pork.

And this is assuming that he isn't ideologically predisposed towards the power of capital (which, unfortunately, is entirely plausible).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ramo

Apparently it matters plenty when people say Texas lawmakers (like the President) are in the pockets of Big Oil.

I don't know what your argument is. Last I checked, Bush has a national constituency.

The question is whether Biden regularly trades favors with lobbyists in general, not whether he's trying to secure jobs for his constituents at the expense of everyone else, i.e. pork.

And this is assuming that he isn't ideologically predisposed towards the power of capital (which, unfortunately, is entirely plausible).

Bush was the Governor of Texas, so I'm sure he'd think that the interests of the oil companies would be in the best interest of the country... unless you think that Biden will suddenly stop being so friendly to the credit card industry if he becomes VP and in which case,

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


U.S. News and World Report has Biden as the poorest. LINK

Frist is Number 5, though. I thought he came from an uberwealthy family. I'd have thought Frist would be swimming in cash.

Try following up your research by going beyond the tertiary source to the secondary source (as best as possible, anyway...)

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/overview.php?type=W&year=2006&filter=S&sort=A

That's where they get their data from. Notice anything funny?

It sounds to me like there's some missing disclosure forms. Also sounds like there's a significant ability to fudge things here ...

In Frist's case, he retired at the end of 2006, so perhaps he wasn't required to file a document for that calendar year? Anyway, in 2005 he had a net worth of like $7m or so ... pretty high on the list

I'd also suggest that Biden's net worth is pretty questionable in my mind. He makes $180k a year, and has for a long time, yet has a near-zero net worth?? He's either got a wife who likes shopping WAY too much, or is a terrible investor, or is using some sort of trick to hide his money (maybe not intentionally, as that's a rather silly thing to do in this case, but nonetheless).

[Ramo]

Bush was the Governor of Texas, so I'm sure he'd think that the interests of the oil companies would be in the best interest of the country...

What does that matter? My argument was about constituency services. That's irrelevant once you changed constituencies.

unless you think that Biden will suddenly stop being so friendly to the credit card industry if he becomes VP and in which case,

He might or might not. I don't know. And if he does, it could be because he's ideologically inclined to do so. We don't know.

The ultimate point here is that the lobbyist charge is baseless.

[Zkribbler]

Wow! Biden has a net worth of -$303,000. With a minus net worth, no wonder he's kissing MBNA's behind.

[snoopy369]

Read that again, please, ZK. He has a net worth of somewhere between -300k and +280k or something like that. I suspect he may be doing something like leaving his wife with most of their money, or something like that, but who knows. (Though Kerry is at the top of the list thanks to Mrs. Heinz, so who knows how this works??)

Again, I can't imagine someone having $180k of income for a very long period of time (how long has he been a senator??) and having a negative net worth. That just doesn't make any sense.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Ramo

Take off those blinders!

You're saying that the VP's kid somehow has a comparable role in governance as a Chief of Staff, Communications Director, etc. Talk about blinders...

Again, what role did G Dub play in the Reagan Admin?

Whether the son of the veep directly benefiting through the ability to lobby via his father is comparable to what occurs due to former lobbyists serving as staff members is merely a slight matter of degree that is up to the individual to determine. To sit there and claim there is some vast gulf of immorality or corruption or influence or what have you between the two is disingenuous.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Wow! Biden has a net worth of -$303,000. With a minus net worth, no wonder he's kissing MBNA's behind.

Someone has to pay for his campaigns

[Ramo]

Whether the son of the veep directly benefiting through the ability to lobby via his father is comparable to what occurs due to former lobbyists serving as staff members is merely a slight matter of degree that is up to the individual to determine. To sit there and claim there is some vast gulf of immorality or corruption or influence or what have you between the two is disingenuous.

I never said the words "immorality" or "corruption." But the equivalence between the influence of senior White House staff and the Vice President's younger son (who is no longer a lobbyist) is absolutely absurd. There's nepotism in politics, but it's not that ludicrous. Can you name any Vice Presidential kid who had a comparable level of influence as a Chief of Staff?

[asleepathewheel]

That's all well and good, but you see I never made the claim that they were equivalent, merely that there is a noticeable lobbyist taint around the Obama campaign. No, I understand why you mount a defense like that, arguing that I claimed they were in fact the same, as its much easier to work up a frothy outrage that someone would dare accuse Obama of having any connections to lobbyists and what not, rather than acknowledging reality.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Agathon


I would say you were joking, but...

You see, this is how I would be a complete failure at being gay. Gay guys I know will make some remark about some dude they find hot, and the man concerned looks to me like a ****ing hideous garden gnome.

On the other hand, I have had some fun conversations with lesbians about hot women.

It's the jawline and the silvery hair.

[Ramo]

That's all well and good, but you see I never made the claim that they were equivalent, merely that there is a noticeable lobbyist taint around the Obama campaign.

You claimed there was a sufficient degree of equivalence that would undermine the Obama attack. That's nonsense. There's simply no comparison between the White House Senior Staff and and Veep's younger kid.