Why do people think McCain is good for the Military?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Patrokaoios

OMFG MCCAIN VOTED AGAINST A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE GIVEN TEH MILITARY MONEYS!!!11 HE'S ANTI MILITARY!

Can it you homo wankers. The simple reality is that if you had to work in the senate and threw money at every whiney ***** who wanted the money you would be accused of wasteful spending and shot out the back of a lion's ass. Let's just get one thing clear. Last week I went to buy some lemonade from a stand run by some twelve year old boys in the neighborhood. I gave them $2.00 for one cup of lemonade. Now these kids work long hours. I'd say maybe 5 hours in the hot hot sun while their mothers call them capitalists and iron their clothes. But they don't get much business and make MAYBE $20 a day for their efforts. Am I to be berated for not giving these youngsters $20 instead of $2? Then berate me. Strap me down right here and berate me all day long. Berate my until I'm red in the face. I will not have any of it. IT is not REASONABLE. THERE IS NO JUSTICE IN IT. I'm being paged now. Maybe it is a booty call?

Wig, promise me that you will never, ever, take the Meds that the doc recommends.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Kidicious
No wonder Patroklos is a Reagan Supply Sider. He's in the Navy Supply Dept.

Lemmie tell you about the Navy Supply Department.

I had an UPS unit in my POS system crap out in the Northern Arabian Sea and after Macguyvering it so we still had diminished use out of it(as opposed to no use) I ordered a new UPS Unit.


Well, we pull into Oman and one day while I'm on duty we get over the 1MC "Muster all E5 and below on the pier for working party". On the pier, of course, is a cornucorpia of various sundries to include flatscreens the supply department bought for themselves, parts thatCombat Systems had ordered, and my Goddamn UPS unit.

Oh cool. Can I just take this up to my space then?

No, we got to fill out all the paperwork.

Okay, so, do you have to paperwork or...

**** no. You need to bring this all down to Supply.

Why? That's on the lowest deck on the Goddamn boat! My space is right there, down the P-way from the quarterdeck, on the maindeck!

You need to take it down to supply, that's how it's done.

You want me to take this 140lbs UPS down 4 Goddamn ladderbacks, so you can, at some point in the future, call me and say I have the privilege of carrying it up 4 goddamn flights of stairs?

Watch it. Don't make me call SKC. Supply is in charge of handling this, and you're working party right now. That's all.

"In Charge"??? You ****ers didn't even order it! I ordered it!


Long story short, I ended up carrying it all the way down, and, the next day, carrying it all the way up.

That's the kind of "outside the box" thinking the USN Supply Department cultivates.

[Patroklos]

Should I bite...

Maybe later

And I apologixe for the harshness of my original post Lonestar, I just consider most of what you posted either fabrications or short sighted

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Should I bite...

Maybe later

And I apologixe for the harshness of my original post Lonestar, I just consider most of what you posted either fabrications or short sighted

That last post actually sounds about right.

[Patroklos]

Sure thing buddy. Far be it from the servicemen fighting this threat that the Republicans have compared to Nazism to receive similar perks that the "Greatest Generation" did.

Obviously you have no concept of what WWII GI Bill benefits were, because the current program goes FAR beyond anything they got.

There are ways to do this, and there war ways not to. And yes, there is a pricetag to what you deserve for you service. Being a vetern is not some secret club that exempts you from the hardships of living.

So, basically "It is acceptable to make it as easy as possible for the opposition to find high profile targets"? Is that what you are saying?

I don't know how they did things on your ship, but passing out ship's movement was a big no-no for us.

It worked the same way on my ship as it did on yours, as it does with every other non special military unit, deployment dates and AORs are public knowledge. Thats why the Post and Couirier publishes the deployment dates and where they are going. Thats why the Navy Times tells you exactly what AOR the ship are currently in every two weeks.

What is an OPSEC violation is saying "we are going to transit the SOH at 1700" or "We will be moving a convoy from Najaf to Baghdad at 1300," NOT we are deploying from Alaska to Baghad in 30 Dec.

Hell, you can go to the CENTCOM website and the OIF/OEF website and locate all the units with more accuracy that what you are *****ing about.

McCain disagrees with ADM Mullen's assessment on where troops should go.

ADM Mullen is the only opinion? Does ADM Mullen even command operational forces? Being an Obama supporter, I understand if that answer is above your paygrade

Which would be a lot more compelling argument if you had volunteered(voluntold) to be IA'd to Iraq, or were a ground pounder. One deployment as DISBO on a DDG then off to shore duty in South Carolina doesn't scream "tough deployment cycle" to me.

I have volunteered. Twice. A four star vetoed it both times.

As for deployment cycle, I spent three years on McFaul and of that 2 were underway, 15 months of that on TWO deployments spent almost exclusively in the HOA or NAG, mostly doing point defense at ABOT and KAAOT doing a dozen bordings a day. I've put my time in Lonestar.

As opposed to Army/Marines who are cycling through every 15 months or less, causing retention problems(when they are at home between deployments) which means...more training for more FNGs! Hell, I was at an IRR muster this past July where they said the exact same thing. Recruiting is easy, retention is difficult. And Retention is important.

Exactly, which is why your support for the GI Bill in the form approved is hypocritcal.

Wrong

Thats one of the smartest ideas ever. The VAs primary mission should be to redress wounds/problems due to their military service, and secondarily general medicine for needs outside their government service.

Wrong

Not actually the case. Are you going to pull an Oeridn now and pull out the handful of felony waivers the Marines approved after extensive special review of the circumstnaces that made up ,01 percent of their recruiting pool last year? Please have more academic honesty.

With increased amounts of equipment crapping out in the field? Hmmm...

Hmm...

One does not exclude the other.

You just made no sense. Surfise to say your contridiction in this instance glaringly stands.

"We go to war with the army we have, not the army we want. Go weld some scrap metal on the humvee."

Why don't we spend 5,000,000 on every soldier Lonestar. Apparently you belive in no cost to great right? Why don't they all have their own persona Abrahms and A10? Hell, WHERE ARE THE BATTLE MECHS?!? Too stingy Lonestar?

Repeat a false statement often. It continues to be false.

Correct, now that you have recognized that your are repeating false statments you can stop.

(1)No, but that doesn't mean McCain isn't willing to play budget chicken because his particular pork isn't in the budget.

Thank you for being honset enough to admit your original characterization was false, and that the reenlistment bouns delay was an unfortunate side effect of bigger forces at play.

(2)I've been out for a couple years. I got out when the USN started making noise about folding my rate into the ETs.

EW correct? They merged that into the every inceasing flavors of CTs.

Not active duty, so the "Lonestar didn't get his annual bribe" isn't exactly germane, is it?

No, it doesn't. Rate loyalties run deep, and it is entirely understandable that you identify what is good for you comrades with what would have been good for you.

And yeah, Republican spendthrift economic policies(at least Dems tend to raise taxes to make up the loss) are responsible for the loss of buying power for ALL Americans, which means that servicemen are affected too.

Give me a break, no party today holds the high ground on fiscal responsibility.

YEAH! FAKE ****ING FUNERALS! WOOHOO!

I will take your sidestep from what my response was directed to to mean you agree with my statment.

As for fake funerals, please provide a link, I know nothing about them.

I happen to agree with a lot of his procurement reforms, actually(The KC-45...and as a Northrup employee you CAN accuse me of "wanting a bribery check" with that.)

Then you are not fundemetally disagreeing with me that the VA and other military initiatives don't deserve or need a limitless supply of money to perform the missions I assume?

Any ****** can spend money and achieve mission readiness, it takes leadership and skill to do so effieciently for reasonable cost.

Help me understand why "The guy was using Petraeus in ads without permission literally days after the JCoS issued direct orders to all in the military to not allow themselves to be used politically." is a good thing then.

Is McCain under the command of the JCS? Is there any restiction on you or I as civilians using the image of the General? If not, why would there be for McCain?

As far as I know McCain hasn't misrepresented his image or anything the General has said, unlike say Obamas fanboys movon.org.

...The Senate Armed Forces committee! ****, wait, who is on that again?

Democrats.

You realize they are holding up over three dozen flag promotions for political reasons right now, right?

Your blind fellowship of a guy because he happened to lose 6 planes is pretty damning.

Fellowship or not, all I did here was point out your gross mischaracterizations/errors/lies.

[MrFun]

McCain is TeH Vietnam veteran and he is TeH former POW!

This alone fulfills his righteous entitlement to TeH presidency!

[OneFootInTheGrave]

because he passed through leadership academy?

[Kirnwaffen]

I really have a hard time with the argument that the new GI Bill is going to cause a retention problem, in large part because it smacks of "If they don't have the means to go elsewhere, we can keep them here", and that's a bull**** retention method. Even if it does cause more people to leave, they aren't leaving just because they now have the means, they're leaving because they aren't being taken care of.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well I think that's in comparison to McCain's GI Bill, which was, most agree, geared more for retention (you get more money the more your stay).

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Yeah, I have seen more troops being interested in possibly voting democrat than ever before.

JM

Don't let Sloww know. He worships the troops and this would destroy him.

[MrFun]

You got that right Dashi!

Any veteran who steps out of line by thinking differently from Republican tools is an unpatriotic disgrace.

[Kirnwaffen]

Well I think that's in comparison to McCain's GI Bill, which was, most agree, geared more for retention (you get more money the more your stay).

And that's fair, but I guess I feel like the whole argument over it as a retention tool is a little misguided. In my mind, it's a nice little carrot, but you shouldn't be trying to retain Soldiers by saying "Well, if you just suck it up for a few more years, we'll [insert perk here]". It's really just a way of avoiding the legitimate, everyday problems that cause them to leave in the first place.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen


And that's fair, but I guess I feel like the whole argument over it as a retention tool is a little misguided. In my mind, it's a nice little carrot, but you shouldn't be trying to retain Soldiers by saying "Well, if you just suck it up for a few more years, we'll [insert perk here]". It's really just a way of avoiding the legitimate, everyday problems that cause them to leave in the first place.

If it's for retention it isn't a very good benefit because people use the GI bill to get better civilian jobs. It's not much better than not having a GI Bill at all.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen


And that's fair, but I guess I feel like the whole argument over it as a retention tool is a little misguided. In my mind, it's a nice little carrot, but you shouldn't be trying to retain Soldiers by saying "Well, if you just suck it up for a few more years, we'll [insert perk here]". It's really just a way of avoiding the legitimate, everyday problems that cause them to leave in the first place.

If it's for retention it isn't a very good benefit because people use the GI bill to get better civilian jobs. It's not much better than not having a GI Bill at all.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen
And that's fair, but I guess I feel like the whole argument over it as a retention tool is a little misguided. In my mind, it's a nice little carrot, but you shouldn't be trying to retain Soldiers by saying "Well, if you just suck it up for a few more years, we'll [insert perk here]". It's really just a way of avoiding the legitimate, everyday problems that cause them to leave in the first place.

Like getting shot at?