Intelligent Design in Schools

[Sandman]

It's not defending any old atheism, I think Hume and Dawkins have a valid point. Your counter-assertions aren't exactly brimming with intellectual vitality. There's no reason to believe in spiritual beings, for example.

We don't know enough about the universe to resolutely say that it could not possibly exist without a miraculously existing miracle-maker to get it started. Perhaps it could.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by CyberShy
It's kindergarten philosophy, that's what's wrong with it.

Basing a conclusion on the comparison between two things of a different kind is just stupid.

Yet you then go comparing "cause" to other things...

[Lancer]

The design is so intelligent that it cannot be determined that it is an intellegent design. If it could, where would faith be?

[David Floyd]

Fine, Lancer. That's certainly a philosophical argument for ID, and I'm perfectly happy with it being made - in a philosophy class. But surely you don't think that

The design is so intelligent that it cannot be determined that it is an intellegent design. If it could, where would faith be?

is a scientific argument, worthy of equal treatment with other scientific theory, correct?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by LotC
Creationists don't deserve the respect of a debate; they only deserve to be ridiculed and called stupid.

Unless they're right.

[David Floyd]

Yes, Zkribbler, unless they're right. That's why I'm asking them for their evidence.

[Zkribbler]

The best argument I ever heard for the Creationist viewpoint:

(a) It is logical that nothing exists.
(b) The fact that something exists is illogical.
(c) To explain this breach of logic, a creation must be implied. For, if there was no creation, then nothing would exist.

[David Floyd]

That sounds like a rehash of the Clockmaker argument. I have no problem with that argument, and can be very well argued from a philosophical standpoint. However, not only does it not scientifically prove anything, but it doesn't even refute evolution, if you take the view that God created the original spark that caused the Big Bang and let nature take it's course. This, of course, implies that evolution SHOULD be taught in a science course, and that the CAUSE of evolution should be debated in a philosophy course, does it not?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by David Floyd
That sounds like a rehash of the Clockmaker argument. I have no problem with that argument, and can be very well argued from a philosophical standpoint. However, ... it not scientifically prove anything, ...

Agreed.

[rah]

I have no problem with it being mentioned in science class.....

As long as they say it's a faith based alternate view with no visible proof. And don't spend a lot of time on it.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by rah
I have no problem with it being mentioned in science class.....

As long as they say it's a faith based alternate view with no visible proof. And don't spend a lot of time on it.

I DO have a problem with anyone trying to teach their faith in a public-school science class...even when they admit their faith-based belief has no scientific basis. Maybe even espeically when they can make this admission.

The government acts only through its officials and employees. That is, when these people act in their official capacities, they are "the government." The government has no business teaching religion.

[rah]

For one. We may laugh at it, but we don't know for sure.

Really though, a lot of myths are debunked in science classes. It's mentioned that people once thought the world was flat. It shows that science doesn't stand still and we should always re-evaluated what we know and ask for proof. If done properly I would bet that ID wouldn't fare well.

[Zkribbler]

The difference is "the world is flat" is an assertion of fact. It can be disproven.

ID is a philosophy. It does not lend itself to scientific proof, either for or against. It has no place in a science class.

[Nikolai]

One learns philosophy in school.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Nikolai
One learns philosophy in school.

Some people can. Others Kan't.