Fun in the ME #1624385: Israel 'could kidnap Ahmadinejad'

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

This is a misconception.

Ahmedinejad personally, and Iran in general, is fiercly hated by most ME countries.

If we attack, Hezbullah would be the only trouble maker.

Enemies of my worst enemies good firends make

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by rah
Does anyone think that the terrorist groups wouldn't kill government leaders if they could. I doubt they subscribe to President Fords 1976 directive.

Wasn't the last Israeli leader who was assasinated done in by a JEWISH terrorist?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Elok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Iran

Officially, he has no say in the matters he's talking about.
Perhaps he has some sort of shadowy influence, but it ain't in his described duties.

This has zilch to do with his described duties. It's all about politics and connections like in any government.

You can say that none other than Olmert is a threat to Iran, but there are some Israeli MKs wielding no official title, who used to hold high defense establishment titles, or simply have enough friends in high places to be very much believable.

Rafi Eitan isn't one of them though.


The Iranian president is a former member of the IRGC, and is the leading face of a shiite sect whose support in Tehran is ever growing.

More and more security establishment personnel close to him have been appointed. He has moved people he didn't like away from the Iranian nuclear program negociations group.

In case you haven't noticed, he's been calling for Israel to be wiped off the map for his entire term of office. It has not happened yet, for a reason:

Because they don't have the ability yet?

The most he can do is appoint a more warlike secretary to their NSC...whose decisions, surprise, have to be ratified by the Supreme Leader.

You're again putting too much of an emphasis on the guy that pushes the button or signs the decree.

A person that uses all his political might in government to promote the nuclear program is much more of a threat than another guy that will eventually push the button.

A person that uses all his political might to promote more people with extreme views in key government positions, is a major threat, even if he doesn't hold the needed power, yet.

You can't be that blind.

Hell, Medvedev at least has nominal power and nobody's silly enough to pay attention to his opinion...

You're joking, right?
It's not a net worth game.
There's a great matter of influences, much bigger than the "ultimate authority" question.

If medvedev appoints a zealot defense minister that is bent on getting laser weapons, then he's a threat, and the defense minister is a threat. Disregarding any discussion of whether any of them will ever sign the official decree, or will Putin ever do it.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by onodera

Yes, and you've lost to Hezbullah the last time.
Also, even if Iran is hated by the Arab world, I'm sure Israel is hated even more.

It seems to me Hezbullah has yet to put its flag in Jerusalem, so it's a bit of a stretch.

Just because Hezbullah survived with half of its leaders unharmed, does not mean they won. They survived. Hardly the same.

We most certainly had a huge blunder though. We missed a good half of our strategic goals, and by cowardly avoiding actual ground combat, the former chief of staff created a false sense of Hezbullah's invincibility. Our new chief of staff won't be as fearful of using troops the next time.


And you're utterly wrong on the second part too.
Israel is rather good friends with half of the muslim world, and for good reasons. Because we have good economical ties, and we have common interests.

Iran, Hezbullah and Syria are quite ostracsized in the muslim world. The major forces: Saudia, Egypt, Turkey, the rich gulf states are all on our side, and hate the Iran-Syria pact.

There was not a single arab condemnation for the Israeli action against Syria in 2007.

The 2006 war was blamed on Hezbullah by Egypt and Saudia.

We have good relations with Pakistan, even.

Recently the foreign minister of a gulf oil state had a tongue slip, when he said that in case Iran got nukes, his country would seek an Israeli umbrella.

[GePap]

Sorry, but "good friends" is quite a stretch of the term (actually, beyond the point of breaking it). Last time I checked states like KSA, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Algeria, Bangladesh and Indonesia do not recognize your state and have no diplomatic relations with Israel. Many Arab regimes are more worried about Iran than Israel. Its not that they care about you guys at all, but that they fear Iran's intentions and message are a greater threat to them than Israel. After all, the Iranian message is one of revolution, something states like Egypt and KSA, big benefactors of US commerce or aide fear far more than the 0% chance of Israeli attempts at outside conquest (since Israel has no ability to inspire anything but hatred or anger from the Arab street).

[Elok]

Iran is a THEOCRACY. Ahmadinejad was voted out of a pool of men carefully selected by the clerics. These democratic trappings are a manifest sham. The office is deliberately excluded from military or foreign policy power. Queen Elizabeth can have very strong opinions, she can be friends with all of Parliament, but in the end she's just an opinionated citizen with a fancy hat. Our pal Mahmoud isn't much stronger.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The former Mossad agent said the Iranian leader had threatened genocide and should therefore be brought for trial to The Hague, seat of the international war crimes tribunal.

If he hasn't done anything, what exactly is the Hague going to do?

Don't you understand how the Hague works? That's what the Hague is for. If someone actually commits a crime against humanity, they are never be sent to the Hague. The Hague exists to stage show trials of people whom the Masters do not like.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Then why aren't you there? No one likes you .

[PLATO]

Hey! I like Aggie.

As off the edge as his politics are, he is an Apolyton Icon!

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Then why aren't you there? No one likes you .

So you consider yourself one of the Masters, do you?

I always thought you were more of a "Yes, Mistress" kind of man.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Elok
Iran is a THEOCRACY. Ahmadinejad was voted out of a pool of men carefully selected by the clerics. These democratic trappings are a manifest sham. The office is deliberately excluded from military or foreign policy power. Queen Elizabeth can have very strong opinions, she can be friends with all of Parliament, but in the end she's just an opinionated citizen with a fancy hat. Our pal Mahmoud isn't much stronger.

This is incorrect. The President remains head of government, and is primarily responsible for internal policy. Different presidents can make a significant difference, and this is particulalrly true given that Khatami is not the same kind of powerful personality that Kohmeini was. Ahmedinejad has real political power, unlike a total figurehead like the Queen. That the scaremongers inflate his power does not mean he has none.

Iran is not a liberal democracy but it is more democratic that the mayority of the Arab states, certainly more dmeocratic than Syria, KSA, or Egypt.

[Elok]

Originally posted by GePap


This is incorrect. The President remains head of government, and is primarily responsible for internal policy. Different presidents can make a significant difference, and this is particulalrly true given that Khatami is not the same kind of powerful personality that Kohmeini was. Ahmedinejad has real political power, unlike a total figurehead like the Queen. That the scaremongers inflate his power does not mean he has none.

Iran is not a liberal democracy but it is more democratic that the mayority of the Arab states, certainly more dmeocratic than Syria, KSA, or Egypt.

Sorry, should have said, "In terms of military power, he isn't much stronger." I took that as assumed given the context of the discussion, but I guess it wasn't clear enough. Anyway, I hear the prez is playing games, bucking for popular support at the clerics' expense, but barring a successful coup he's not getting control of the military (and it's kinda hard to do a coup without the military in the first place). I doubt he can so much as get a single soldier to wiggle his toes without the Ayatollah countersigning a form. And control over domestic policy isn't going to wipe Israel off the map, or drive them into the sea, or whatever hyperbole he's using this week.

[rah]

Any person that has a big enough soap box to get up on can have considerable influence. Being the president gives him that.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Wasn't the last Israeli leader who was assasinated done in by a JEWISH terrorist?

Actually no. We had a cabinet minister and a leader of medium sized political party murdered in 2001 by Palestinian terrorists.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Eli

Actually no. We had a cabinet minister and a leader of medium sized political party murdered in 2001 by Palestinian terrorists.

Was that the guy who'd been referring to them as "lice"?

If so, good riddance.