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Originally posted by Arrian
When times get tough, apparently everybody becomes a socialist.
When times get tough, apparently everybody becomes a socialist.
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What are you talking about? Republicans have always been for privatizing profits and socializing loses.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate. -
Oerdin, what do you think this part of that post was about?
-ArrianWhen times are good, it's all "regulation is bad!" "taxes kill investment!" When times go bad it's "help me Uncle Sammy!" (tax dollars, now or later).grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Question, question, question.
Shouldn't Congress have been in on this decision? It's the branch that is supposed to decide policy and is supposed to appropriate money.Comment
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They were. They gratnted Paulson the authority last month.Originally posted by Zkribbler
Question, question, question.
Shouldn't Congress have been in on this decision? It's the branch that is supposed to decide policy and is supposed to appropriate money."I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003Comment
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I guess the preferreds weren't protected, after all.Originally posted by PLATO
Nope...preferred shares and debt to be protected. Common shares to be diluted.
Fannie Mae Preferred S, R, and F shares down roughly 80% in trading and a further 20% in after hours trading...
Freddie Mac Preferred T, S, R, Q, G, P, O, and N shares down roughly 85% in trading...
I don't have a Bloomberg screen to determine whether all of the preferreds are accounted for in this list. But that's what was in Google Finance.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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I beg to differ. Rather it's that when times are good people are fine happy with state-guaranteed debt. When times are bad it's "I don't wanna pay for the guarantee Uncle Sammy". Ok, ok, it was the lobbyists fault, but there was a quid pro quo regardless. Except of PLATO lots of people seem to be in a bit of a denial the socialism/interventionism had been going on for a long time.Originally posted by Arrian
When times get tough, apparently everybody becomes a socialist.
When times are good, it's all "regulation is bad!" "taxes kill investment!" When times go bad it's "help me Uncle Sammy!" (tax dollars, now or later).
-ArrianDISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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Yeah. The initial call was to protect the preferred and all the debt but dilute the common shares. Apparently this didn't sit to well with some politicians. There were some rather intense discussions on this subject from what I gathered from a few phone calls last night. Apparently there are some banks pretty heavily invested in the preferreds and there was some concern about their balance sheets as well. I am not sure how it all settled, but I'll ask around a bit.Originally posted by DanS
I guess the preferreds weren't protected, after all.
Fannie Mae Preferred S, R, and F shares down roughly 80% in trading and a further 20% in after hours trading...
Freddie Mac Preferred T, S, R, Q, G, P, O, and N shares down roughly 85% in trading...
I don't have a Bloomberg screen to determine whether all of the preferreds are accounted for in this list. But that's what was in Google Finance."I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003Comment
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Originally posted by PLATO
They were. They granted Paulson the authority last month.
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Oops...
US move triggers CDS default
By Aline van Duyn in New York
Published: September 8 2008 19:21 | Last updated: September 8 2008 19:21
One of the largest defaults in the history of the $62,000bn credit derivatives market has been triggered by the US government’s seizure of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, raising questions about how dealers will unwind billions of dollars worth of contracts.
Although the $1,600bn of debt issued by the troubled mortgage groups is regarded as safe after the US government’s move to take control of the companies, their move into “conservatorship†counts as the equivalent of a bankruptcy in the credit derivatives market.
This triggers a default on credit default swaps – instruments that provide a form of insurance on fixed-income assets. Dealers in the market are now working to settle these contracts.
The exact amount of CDS on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not known, reflecting the private nature of the market, but they are part of widely traded indices and the amounts are likely to be significant. Analysts at Lehman Brothers said: “There is likely to be a considerable amount of notional protection outstanding.â€Last edited by DanS; September 8, 2008, 19:54.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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And here's where some of the bodies lie...
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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An indication of the extent of Fannie's and Freddie's lobbying efforts. $174 million over 10 years. Don't think this includes public relations, which has been substantial at least the last couple of years. The WaPo has been running feel good ads from Fannie Mae for a few months, f.e.
Obama got $123,000. McCain got $19,000.
As it turns out, straight from the taxpayers' pockets.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Jason Furman, Obama's top economic adviser, attacked McCain's privatization plan as ``hasty'' and ``ideological.''
``These institutions do serve a lot of vital public functions for affordable housing that just aren't served right now by any other government institutions,'' he told Bloomberg Television in a separate interview yesterday.*sigh*``You can't eliminate them,'' Connecticut lawmaker Chris Dodd, the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, told Bloomberg Television yesterday. ``They have been a tremendous source of stability and strength'' for the housing market.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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Affordable housing... like those ~$600k mortgages they were handing out?
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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To be fair, in a few areas of the country, that is affordable housing. Just ask Japher.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Rock on, Bunning.
Senator Bunning Says Paulson Acts Like Socialist, Should Resign
By Matthew Benjamin
Sept. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Senator Jim Bunning said Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, by rescuing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is acting like China's finance minister and both Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke should step down.
``I sincerely believe that Henry Paulson and Ben Bernanke should resign,'' said Bunning, a Republican from Kentucky on the Senate Banking Committee. ``They have taken the free market out of the free market.''
Paulson and the federal regulator for Fannie and Freddie placed the two largest U.S. mortgage-finance companies in a government-operated conservatorship on Sept. 7, ousting their chief executives and eliminating their dividends. Treasury also may purchase up to $200 billion of stock in the firms to keep them solvent.
``We no longer have a free market in the United States, we have a government controlled free market,'' Bunning said in an interview. Paulson, a former chief executive officer of Goldman Sachs Group Inc., ``is acting like the minister of finance in China.''
Bunning, 76, criticized Paulson's successful effort in July to obtain congressional authority to pump unlimited amounts of money into Fannie and Freddie to keep them afloat.
``When I picked up my newspaper yesterday, I thought I woke up in France. But no, it turned out it was socialism here in the United States,'' he told Paulson at a July 15 Senate Banking Committee hearing.
Following Paulson's Sept. 7 announcement of the takeover of Fannie and Freddie, Bunning said he now feels like a citizen of China.
Former Phillies Pitcher
``No company fails in communist China, because they're all partly owned by the government,'' said the former pitcher for the Philadelphia Phillies.
Bunning accused Paulson of deception when he told Congress in July that the Treasury's plan would instill such confidence among investors that it would never have to be used.
Paulson ``saw and knew what was happening, and didn't tell the truth to the banking committee,'' Bunning said yesterday.
Treasury spokeswoman Michele Davis didn't respond to requests for comment.
Bunning, a critic of former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, faults Bernanke for lax supervision of the mortgage market.
The Fed chief waited too long to require lenders to change how they write mortgages, Bunning said. ``I mean he just did it two months ago. Come on.''
When asked if he expects more multibillion dollar rescues by Treasury, Bunning said, ``You bet I do.''
He said Paulson on Sept. 7 should have detailed an overhaul in the business model of Fannie and Freddie.
Bunning predicted in July that, contrary to statements by the Treasury, Paulson would provide capital to Fannie and Freddie.
``Every time we propose and do something, it always gets used,'' he told Paulson at the July banking committee hearing.
To contact the reporters on this story: Matthew Benjamin in Washington at mbenjamin2@bloomberg.net.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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