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  • Liberals hate the poor!

    Well, not really.

    Interesting bit of research:

    The United States economy has grown faster, on average, under Democratic presidents than under Republicans, a new book says.


    Economic View

    Is History Siding With Obama’s Economic Plan?
    By ALAN S. BLINDER

    Published: August 30, 2008

    CLEARLY, there are major differences between the economic policies of Senators Barack Obama and John McCain. Mr. McCain wants more tax cuts for the rich; Mr. Obama wants tax cuts for the poor and middle class. The two men also disagree on health care, energy and many other topics.


    Such differences are hardly surprising. Democrats and Republicans have followed different approaches to the economy for as long as there have been Democrats and Republicans. Longer, actually. Remember Hamilton versus Jefferson?

    Many Americans know that there are characteristic policy differences between the two parties. But few are aware of two important facts about the post-World War II era, both of which are brilliantly delineated in a new book, “Unequal Democracy,” by Larry M. Bartels, a professor of political science at Princeton. Understanding them might help voters see what could be at stake, economically speaking, in November.

    I call the first fact the Great Partisan Growth Divide. Simply put, the United States economy has grown faster, on average, under Democratic presidents than under Republicans.

    The stark contrast between the whiz-bang Clinton years and the dreary Bush years is familiar because it is so recent. But while it is extreme, it is not atypical. Data for the whole period from 1948 to 2007, during which Republicans occupied the White House for 34 years and Democrats for 26, show average annual growth of real gross national product of 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents versus 2.78 percent under Democrats.

    That 1.14-point difference, if maintained for eight years, would yield 9.33 percent more income per person, which is a lot more than almost anyone can expect from a tax cut.

    Such a large historical gap in economic performance between the two parties is rather surprising, because presidents have limited leverage over the nation’s economy. Most economists will tell you that Federal Reserve policy and oil prices, to name just two influences, are far more powerful than fiscal policy. Furthermore, as those mutual fund prospectuses constantly warn us, past results are no guarantee of future performance. But statistical regularities, like facts, are stubborn things. You bet against them at your peril.

    The second big historical fact, which might be called the Great Partisan Inequality Divide, is the focus of Professor Bartels’s work.

    It is well known that income inequality in the United States has been on the rise for about 30 years now — an unsettling development that has finally touched the public consciousness. But Professor Bartels unearths a stunning statistical regularity: Over the entire 60-year period, income inequality trended substantially upward under Republican presidents but slightly downward under Democrats, thus accounting for the widening income gaps over all. And the bad news for America’s poor is that Republicans have won five of the seven elections going back to 1980.

    The Great Partisan Inequality Divide is not limited to the poor. To get a more granular look, Professor Bartels studied the postwar history of income gains at five different places in the income distribution.

    The 20th percentile is the income level at which 20 percent of all families have less income and 80 percent have more. It is thus a plausible dividing line between the poor and the nonpoor. Similarly, the 40th percentile is the income level at which 40 percent of the families are poorer and 60 percent are richer. And similarly for the 60th, 80th, and 95th percentiles. The 95th percentile is the best dividing line between the rich and the nonrich that the data permitted Professor Bartels to study. (That dividing line, by the way, is well below the $5 million threshold John McCain has jokingly used for defining the rich. It’s closer to $180,000.)

    The accompanying table, which is adapted from the book, tells a remarkably consistent story. It shows that when Democrats were in the White House, lower-income families experienced slightly faster income growth than higher-income families — which means that incomes were equalizing. In stark contrast, it also shows much faster income growth for the better-off when Republicans were in the White House — thus widening the gap in income.

    The table also shows that families at the 95th percentile fared almost as well under Republican presidents as under Democrats (1.90 percent growth per year, versus 2.12 percent), giving them little stake, economically, in election outcomes. But the stakes were enormous for the less well-to-do. Families at the 20th percentile fared much worse under Republicans than under Democrats (0.43 percent versus 2.64 percent). Eight years of growth at an annual rate of 0.43 percent increases a family’s income by just 3.5 percent, while eight years of growth at 2.64 percent raises it by 23.2 percent.

    The sources of such large differences make for a slightly complicated story. In the early part of the period — say, the pre-Reagan years — the Great Partisan Growth Divide accounted for most of the Great Partisan Inequality divide, because the poor do relatively better in a high-growth economy.

    Beginning with the Reagan presidency, however, growth differences are smaller and tax and transfer policies have played a larger role. We know, for example, that Republicans have typically favored large tax cuts for upper-income groups while Democrats have opposed them. In addition, Democrats have been more willing to raise the minimum wage, and Republicans have been more hostile toward unions.

    The two Great Partisan Divides combine to suggest that, if history is a guide, an Obama victory in November would lead to faster economic growth with less inequality, while a McCain victory would lead to slower economic growth with more inequality. Which part of the Obama menu don’t you like?

    Alan S. Blinder is a professor of economics and public affairs at Princeton and former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve. He has advised many Democratic politicians.


    The chart:
    Family Income growth (Annual average 1948-2005 by income levels and adjusted for inflation)

    Percentile Dem. President (26 years) Rep. President (32 years)
    20th +2.64% + 0.43%
    40th +2.46% + 0.80%
    60th +2.47% + 1.13%
    80th +2.38% + 1.39%
    95th +2.12% + 1.90%
    If you don't like reality, change it! me
    "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
    "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
    "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

  • #2
    Republicans do have a way of making things worse for people. The democrats aren't as bad, and they often take over after the republicans have ****ed everything up. That said, I don't think the democrats have been all that great either.
    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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    • #3
      Interesting analysis. However, until they repeat that study while controlling for oil prices, Federal Reserve prices, etc., you can't chalk it up to Dem vs. Rep.
      "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
      "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

      Comment


      • #4
        Good thing they didn't extend their analysis to the bust years under Roosevelt in the 30's and boom years under Republicans in the 20's. That'd ruin their well crafted conclusion.
        Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

        When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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        • #5
          Yes they do. At least here. We have Liberal Right and Socialist Left.
          Graffiti in a public toilet
          Do not require skill or wit
          Among the **** we all are poets
          Among the poets we are ****.

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          • #6
            Mr. Obama wants tax cuts for the poor and middle class


            This is as far as I read. When the bottom 50% have no federal tax liability, then writers such as these reveal themselves to be writing in an uninformed purely partisan manner. That makes this a campaign ad and not news.

            The only thing they might be talking about is when Obama gets us all those high paying non-outsourceable jobs that he promised. Then the poor will be middle class. Yeah...that might be it!

            I am really looking forward to the new job when it gets here and I am more confident than ever as McCain promised me the same job if he wins!
            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by OzzyKP
              Good thing they didn't extend their analysis to the bust years under Roosevelt in the 30's and boom years under Republicans in the 20's. That'd ruin their well crafted conclusion.
              Last time I noticed the US economy is a lot different in 1948 than it was in 1928, specially given the huge amounts of controls that came into effect.

              Besides, your arguement is a bit shallow. Why 1920's and 1930's, but not 1940'? So its Okay to include economic growth in the 1920's but not the massive growth in the 1940's during the war? (which the author didn't?) And then of course, some of the steppest percentage declined occurred from 1929-1932, which would fall in the Hoover years.

              So, did you have a realisitc counter-arguement?
              If you don't like reality, change it! me
              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PLATO
                Mr. Obama wants tax cuts for the poor and middle class


                This is as far as I read. When the bottom 50% have no federal tax liability, then writers such as these reveal themselves to be writing in an uninformed purely partisan manner. That makes this a campaign ad and not news.
                So you still accept the statistical findings that Americans do better under Democrats in the past 50 years? And still want to pick the slower growth, right?
                If you don't like reality, change it! me
                "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                Comment


                • #9
                  I hate to be "that guy" GePap, but this does not prove a link. Not even close. As I said, control for the Fed, control for oil prices, etc. etc., and then look at the data. There may well be a link, I don't know. But there are too many variables to say that it's due to the party sitting in the White House.
                  "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                  "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Even just a similar analysis of GDP growth under Republican and Democratic congresses would look quite different. The most successful of late seems to be Democratic President/Republican congress, but I'm not really sure there's anything so special about that combination.

                    Frankly, it's pretty much luck. You don't want to get ****ed over by terrorists or an energy crisis (Bush and Carter both had to deal with both) and you hope that you can get a nice little economic bubble going that bursts just in time to screw over your successor. (Clinton, Coolidge.)
                    "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

                    Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Guynemer
                      I hate to be "that guy" GePap, but this does not prove a link. Not even close. As I said, control for the Fed, control for oil prices, etc. etc., and then look at the data. There may well be a link, I don't know. But there are too many variables to say that it's due to the party sitting in the White House.
                      Did you read this part of the article?

                      Such a large historical gap in economic performance between the two parties is rather surprising, because presidents have limited leverage over the nation’s economy. Most economists will tell you that Federal Reserve policy and oil prices, to name just two influences, are far more powerful than fiscal policy. Furthermore, as those mutual fund prospectuses constantly warn us, past results are no guarantee of future performance. But statistical regularities, like facts, are stubborn things. You bet against them at your peril.


                      The man who wrote this is a Democrat, and also a professor of economics and public affairs at Princeton and former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve, so he knows his economics.

                      Even if policy has nothing to do with it, why chance it and go with the Republicans and their statistical track record?
                      If you don't like reality, change it! me
                      "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                      "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                      "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sample size?
                        "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

                        Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jaguar
                          Sample size?
                          Read the article, and then if you need more, you have the book's name and the author's name. I am sure a few seconds of internet research will answer your questions.
                          If you don't like reality, change it! me
                          "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                          "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                          "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I read the article, and I'm questioning the obviously poor sample size. With so many factors not under a president's control, you can't state anything meaningful without a huge sample size.

                            This is like claiming that one guy is obviously better at scrabble than another because he won six out of ten games.
                            "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

                            Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I hate the poor but I'm not liberal.

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