Christians in India again - Orissa.

[Heresson]

Some hindu nationalist activist was killed, allegedly by maoist rebellians. But the crowd had another theory - and started lynching christians. Many dead, thousands hiding in the jungle while their houses are being looted and put on fire. Discuss.

[Heresson]

Christians in India’s Orissa state who were victims of the recent wave of communal violence are now being told to “covert or die” by Hindu extremists.

The ultimatum issued by the Hindu extremists has forced some Christians to abandon their religion altogether, according to the Global Council of Indian Christians (GCIC), a Bangalore-based Christian advocacy group.

"I am forced to convert to Hinduism whether I like or dislike; I cannot say further and my life is in danger," Promond Digal, 32, from the violence-hit Kandhamal district, told GCIC.

A clash over a decorative arch for the Christmas celebrations on December 24 led to large-scale communal violence and attacks against churches throughout the district. Four people were confirmed dead while, 95 churches and 730 houses were burnt down or destroyed after several days of violence, according to the All India Christian Council (AICC).

Earlier this month, a fact-finding team from the National Commission for Minorities (NCM) of India accused Hindu fundamentalists of perpetrating “organised and pre-planned attacks” against the Christian community.

The commission pointed to the possible involvement of organisations including Vishwa Hindu Parishad (World Hindu Coucil), Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (National Volunteers’ Organization or RSS) and their affiliates.

AICC and GCIC, on the other hand, have openly accused the Hindu organisations of being responsible for the attacks on Christians.

Furthermore, although the anti-Christian violence has apparently subsided, ”fundamentalists are going to individual families with guns and threatening them to become Hindus," GCIC said.

Christians who have converted to Hinduism expressed their helplessness about changing their religion.

"Fundamentalists came and threatened me and my family and said if you do not change your religion prepare to leave the village or die, there was no other way than to accept Hinduism," said B Digal, 60, from Gochhapada village.

Samonary Digal, a Catholic in the Kandhamal district, similarly reported how the members of the RSS “warned me to prepare to die or to leave the place if you do not become Hindu”.

“Finally I had to accept what they say," he admitted

According to social worker R Nayak, 25 Dalit families of Mahasingh village were converted to Hinduism on December 25.

“They were forced to drink mixed water of cow dung, ghee and perform the Hindu ritual," he reported

"They live under threat and convert then. They live under danger and panic."

Another forced convert, who did not want to disclose his name, said he was told, "If you cannot be a Hindu, we will finish you off and set fire your entire house.”

However, he added, “I and my family have left the faith but God will remain with us."

Relief organisations, including Christian NGOs, are not yet allowed to go into the violence-struck districts. Food distribution from the state government, meanwhile, seems to be improving, GCIC reported.

Orissa state is the site of the 1999 slaying of Australian missionary Graham Staines and his sons – Philip, 10, and Timothy, 8 – who were burned to death as they slept inside their vehicle after a Bible study class. It is the only Indian state that has a law requiring people to obtain police permission before they change their religion – a move designed to counter missionary work.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/orissa.christians.told.to.convert.or.die/16477.htm

[Dinner]

Re: Christians in India again - Orissa.

Originally posted by Heresson
Some hindu nationalist activist was killed, allegedly by maoist rebellians. But the crowd had another theory - and started lynching christians. Many dead, thousands hiding in the jungle while their houses are being looted and put on fire. Discuss.

India is a third world crap hole?

[chequita guevara]

They should take this opportunity to seek martydom.

[Kidlicious]

The article is dated January. Is this the first time that this has happened? I don't think so. Was it christians or muslims who were the victims the first time? Anyway, the attackers and instigators are well known and the government does nothing.

[Heraclitus]

"Convert or die"

[Heraclitus]

India

[Maniac]

They should convert to Buddhism instead and then point and laugh "HA-ha" to the Hindus' faces.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Kidicious
The article is dated January. Is this the first time that this has happened? I don't think so. Was it christians or muslims who were the victims the first time? Anyway, the attackers and instigators are well known and the government does nothing.

Oh, I just posted a random article from the net. I don't think christians started it: if You're a 20% minority in the region, and 2% minority in entire country, You do not want to start fights.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Heresson


Oh, I just posted a random article from the net. I don't think christians started it: if You're a 20% minority in the region, and 2% minority in entire country, You do not want to start fights.

That completely explains why we never had Catholics or Muslims causing any problems in England. Thanks for clarifying.

[Heresson]

Muslims are a very specific group, and they are immigrants in England, while in India they used to be ruling elite. Christians in India are converted autochtones. Catholics were persecuted in England, not the other way round. In the times of queen Mary they were a majority anyway.
|To say Orissan christians are to blame is like to say: well, there's a pogrom of Jews, but we don't know who's started it yet. Of course, it is possible bloodthirsty christians attacked 80% hindu majority, just to be repealed and pogromised, but not very likely, is it.

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp



That completely explains why we never had Catholics or Muslims causing any problems in England. Thanks for clarifying.

As Heresson said, all the english used to be Catholic. In fact, England stopped being catholic due to state sponsored persecution.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Heresson
Catholics were persecuted in England, not the other way round. In the times of queen Mary they were a majority anyway.

Almost hilarious, the ability to deny the persecution of non-catholics in England on the same line as mentioning Bloody Mary who had hundreds of dissenters burned to death.

Why were there a 'majority of catholics' during her reign, I wonder. Perhaps the prospect of being literally toast may have had some influence.

[Cort Haus]

Anyway, that is all beside the point.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/31/india.religion

Christians hide in forests as Hindu mobs ransack villages

As death toll rises, Prime Minister denounces 'national shame' in state of Orissa where 60 churches were burned down
# Gethin Chamberlain
# The Observer,
# Sunday August 31 2008

Thousands of terrified Indian Christians are hiding in the forests of the volatile Indian state of Orissa after a wave of religious 'cleansing' forced them from their burnt-out homes with no immediate prospect of return.

A mob of Hindu fundamentalists rampaged through villages last week, killing those too slow to get out of their way, burning churches and an orphanage, and targeting the homes of Christians. Up to 20 people were reported dead, with at least two deliberately set alight, after the murder of a Hindu leader last Saturday provoked the violence.

In some districts, entire villages lay deserted, abandoned by Christian populations who would rather shelter in the forests than return to face the risk of death. Some villagers attempted to return to their homes yesterday despite threats of further violence.

But Christian leaders who had spoken to those who have fled said that even among the trees they were not safe. Some of their tormenters have pursued them, trying to finish the job.

One of those hiding in the forest, Abalkora Diggal, described how a group arrived at Balkidadi village on Monday morning chanting anti-Christian slogans. 'In the evening, a much bigger group of over 1,000 people fired in the air and warned us to leave if we wanted to stay alive,' he told a local journalist.

They fled into the forest, emerging only when they saw an aid convoy arrive under heavy police protection. Afterwards, they returned to the forest, without food or fresh water. 'I had a home and a tractor. I reared goats and hens. Now I have nothing,' said Mr Diggal.

Babu Joseph, spokesman for the Catholic Bishop's Conference of India, told The Observer that many people were too frightened to return to their homes.

After speaking by mobile phone to some of those in hiding, he said: 'They are living without food or drink and even there they are being hunted down by these people. I have spoken to nuns and priests who are hiding in the forests.

'They said that it was a horrifying experience. Groups arrived at their villages carrying guns, swords and homemade weapons and even small bombs, which they used to blast the places. The groups targeted every Christian house in their villages. The people had a list of the Christian houses and institutions and none were spared.' The Church said nearly 3,000 houses had been destroyed, most of them owned by Christians. More than 60 churches were burned down and at least half a dozen convents.

'It is the result of a sustained hate campaign against Christians in Orissa,' Rev Joseph said.

Manmohan Singh, the Indian Prime Minister, described the violence as a 'national shame', while Raphael Cheenath, the Archbishop of Cuttack-Bhubaneswar, called for an end to the 'ethnic cleansing of Christians'.

The violence erupted after the murder of Hindu leader Swami Lakshmananda Saraswati at an ashram last Saturday night, along with four other activists from the hardline Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) party.

It was claims by the VHP that Christians were to blame for the deaths that acted as a trigger for the killing spree, although Maoist guerillas have since claimed responsibility for the murders. Reports said that about 30 Maoists opened fire on the ashram. A spokesman for the People's Liberation Guerrilla Army said it had targeted Saraswati, who had campaigned against conversions and the killing of cows, for 'fascist activities'.

The revenge killings have been indiscriminate: a 19-year-old Hindu Rajni Majhi was burned to death by a mob who attacked the Christian-run Missionary Orphan Centre in the Bargarh district.

Some of the 150,000 Christians in the Kandhamal area have been sheltered by Hindu neighbours, but about 5,000 are believed to have sought refuge in the forests, with up to 10,000 under guard in camps set up by the government.

Underlying the violence is a long-simmering dispute between Hindus and Christians in the state over the conversion of low-caste Hindus to Catholicism. The success of the Christian churches has fuelled resentment among hardline Hindus. The Vatican has condemned the violence. Most of India's billion-plus citizens are Hindu, while just 2.5 per cent of them are Christians.

Shoot-on-sight orders were issued to security forces in eight districts and a curfew remained in place yesterday in nine districts.

About 3,000 Christians demonstrated outside the Orissa state building in New Delhi yesterday, holding placards calling for peace and condemning the state government. On Friday about 25,000 Catholic schools were closed in a symbolic protest against the killings.

[Heresson]

heresies before reformation weren't that spread in England. OK, there was one important heretic thinker, but I doubt he had a popular support in the rural areas or even towns.
England was catholic originally. Henry persecuted them to have his own church and rob the RCC, Mary turned against the protestants, and Elisabeth again against RCC.

Establishing protestant rule or spread of protestantism in cities doesn't mean that the population is protestant, just like establishment of christianity as the official religion doesn't mean all pagans are turned into christians. It takes decades and centuries to do that.
Protestantism spread amongst the ones who could read, who had interest in changing faith. But majority of population wasn't protestant at all, they were catholics by conviction or by default.