What is the state of Russian armor?

[Lancer]

Which it isn't, so Russia can't fight a ground war and win. It would seem that US and German armor is more modern. Don't know about the French and British.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Lancer
Which it isn't, so Russia can't fight a ground war and win. It would seem that US and German armor is more modern. Don't know about the French and British.

British

Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank, United Kingdom
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Key Data
Crew4 - Commander, gunner, loader, driverLength8.3mWidth3.5mLength With Gun Forward11.5mHeight2.5mWeight62,500kgGuns1 x 120mm, model L30 gunFull specifications
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Challenger 2 is an advanced main battle tank built by BAE Systems Land Systems (formerly Vickers Defence Systems, then Alvis Vickers Ltd). Challenger 2 is in service with the British Army and with the Royal Army of Oman. The UK placed orders for 127 Challenger 2 tanks in 1991 and an additional 259 in 1994. In 1993 Oman ordered 18 Challenger 2 tanks and an order for a further 20 tanks was placed in November 1997.

"Challenger 2 has seen operational service in Bosnia and Kosovo."Challenger 2 entered service with the British Army in June 1998 and the last of the 386 tanks was delivered in April 2002. Deliveries for Oman were completed in 2001. Challenger 2 has seen operational service in Bosnia and Kosovo. British Army Challenger 2 tanks were deployed on active service in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

In July 2004, the UK Ministry of Defence announced plans for a reduction of seven Challenger 2 armoured squadrons (about 100 tanks) by March 2007 and the change of role of one Challenger 2 regiment to an armoured reconnaissance regiment.

Challenger 2E, the latest development model, has been designed for the export market and is suitable for harsh environmental and climactic conditions. The 2E has been extensively trialled in Greece, Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

ARMAMENT

Challenger 2 is equipped with an L30, 120mm rifled tank gun from BAE Systems Land Systems (formerly RO Defence). In January 2004, Land Systems was awarded a contract to develop a new smoothbore 120mm gun for the British Army Challenger tanks. Under the contract, a Challenger 2 has been armed with the Rheinmetall L55 smoothbore gun, as fitted on the Leopard 2A6 tank, and began firing trials in January 2006.

The L30 gun is made from Electro-Slag Refined steel (ESR) and is insulated with a thermal sleeve. It is fitted with a muzzle reference system and fume extraction. The turret is capable of 360° rotation and the weapon elevation range is from -10° to +20°.

There is capacity for 50 120mm projectiles, including Armour-Piercing Fin-Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS), High-Explosive Squash Head (HESH) or smoke rounds. The L30 gun can also fire the Depleted Uranium (DU) round with a stick charge propellant. With the DU round, the L30 is part of the Charm 3 gun, charge and projectile system.

"Challenger 2 is in service with the British Army and with the Royal Army of Oman."The gun control is provided by an all-electric gun control and stabilisation system from BAE Systems. Challenger 2 is also equipped with a Boeing 7.62mm chain gun, which is located to the left of the main tank gun. The loader has a 7.62mm GPMG L37A2 anti-air machine gun, mounted on the cupola.

SELF-PROTECTION

The turret is protected with second generation Chobham armour. A Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) protection system is located in the turret bustle. On each side of the turret are five L8 smoke grenade dischargers, from Thales AFV Systems Ltd (formerly Helio Mirror Company).

Challenger 2 can also set a smoke screen by the injection of diesel fuel into the engine exhausts.

FIRE CONTROL AND OBSERVATION

The digital fire control computer is produced by Computing Devices Company (now General Dynamics – Canada). General Dynamics UK is supplying the Platform Battlefield Information System Application (PBISA) for the British Army Challenger 2 tanks. PBISA integrates the commander's display, inertial navigation system, digitisation processing computer and driver’s display panel. Land Systems is responsible for system integration and some of the software. PBISA entered service in December 2005.

British Army Challenger 2 tanks are being fitted with the Bowman tactical, digital communications system. Prime contractor for Bowman is General Dynamics UK. Bowman provides secure voice and data communications and automatic location of units. Challenger tanks fitted with the system were deployed to Iraq in early 2006.

"Challenger 2E is the latest development model."The commander has a panoramic VS 580-10 gyrostabilised sight from SAGEM (formerly SFIM Industries). A laser rangefinder is incorporated into an intermediate assembly. Elevation range is +35° to -35°. The commander's station is equipped with eight periscopes which provide 360° vision.

The Thermal Observation and Gunnery Sight II (TOGS II), from Thales (formerly Pilkington) Optronics, provides night vision. The sensor is based on UK TICM 2 common modules. The thermal image, with magnification x4 and x11.5 is displayed in the gunner's and commander's sights and monitors. The gunner has a Thales Optronics stabilised Gunner's Primary Sight, consisting of visual channel, 4Hz laser rangefinder and display. The laser rangefinder has a range of 200m to 10km.

The driver is equipped with an image-intensifying Passive Driving Periscope (PDP) from Thales Optronics, for night driving.

THE CHALLENGER LETHALITY IMPROVEMENT PROGRAMME

The Challenger lethality improvement programme aims to upgrade the main gun of Challenger 2 from its current 120mm L30A1 rifled gun to the 120mm Rheinmetall L55 smoothbore gun currently used by the Leopard 2 A6.

The use of a smooth bore allows Challenger 2 to use more lethal rounds developed in Germany and the US. As of January 2006, a single Challenger 2 has been fitted with the L55 and is undergoing trials.

PROPULSION

The Challenger 2 has a 12-cylinder, 1,200hp Perkins Caterpillar CV12 diesel engine and a David Brown TN54 gearbox, with six forward and two reverse gears. Second-generation Hydrogas suspension and hydraulic track tensioner are fitted. The maximum speed by road is 59km/h and 40km/h cross country. The range is given as 450km by road and 250km cross country.

CHALLENGER 2E

"Challenger 2E has a new integrated weapon control and battlefield management system."Challenger 2E has a new integrated weapon control and battlefield management system, which includes a gyrostabilised panoramic SAGEM MVS 580 day / thermal sight for the commander and SAGEM SAVAN 15 gyrostabilised day / thermal sight for the gunner, both with eyesafe laser rangefinder. This allows hunter / killer operations with a common engagement sequence. An optional servo-controlled overhead weapons platform can be slaved to the commander's sight to allow operation independent from the turret.

The powerpack has been replaced with a new 1,500hp Europack with transversely mounted MTU 883 diesel engine coupled to Renk HSWL 295TM automatic transmission. The smaller but more powerful engine allows more space for fuel storage, increasing the vehicle's range to 550km

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/challenger2/

[Asher]

I very nearly worked for General Dynamics Canada. :whew:

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Lancer
Which it isn't, so Russia can't fight a ground war and win. It would seem that US and German armor is more modern. Don't know about the French and British.

French

Leclerc Main Battle Tank, France
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Key Data
Crew3 (commander, driver, gunner)Hull Length6.9mOverall Length9.9mWidth3.7mHeight2.5mCombat Weight56tRoad Speed70km/hFull specifications
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The Leclerc Main Battle Tank (MBT) built by Giat Industries is operational with the French Army and the armed forces of Abu Dhabi of the United Arab Emirates. The Leclerc was first operational with the French Army in 1992 and with UAE in 1995. Leclerc mk2 tanks with improved software and engine control system entered production in 1998.

"The Leclerc main battle tank is operational with the French Army and the armed forces of the UAE."The French Army has 354 Leclerc MBTs in service and in September 2001 ordered the final tranche of 52, concluding a total order of 406 (plus 20 armoured recovery vehicles). Deliveries completed in October 2007.

390 tanks and 46 armoured recovery vehicles have been ordered by UAE. Deliveries of the tanks were completed in May 2004, deliveries of the ARVs will conclude in 2008.

In June 2006, Nexter unveiled the Leclerc optimised for urban operations. It is fitted with the AZUR kit, which consists of additional protection in the form of side skirts of composite material, bar armour on the rear of hull and turret to protect against Rocket-Propelled Grenades (RPGs) and extra protection for the engine against petrol bombs.

A remotely controlled 7.62mm machine gun is also fitted in addition to the 120mm gun.

FINDERS BATTLE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
The Leclerc is fitted with the FINDERS (Fast Information, Navigation, Decision and Reporting System) battlefield management system, developed by Nexter Systems. FINDERS includes a colour map display which shows the positions of the host tank, allied and hostile forces and designated targets and can be used for route and mission planning.

The French Army has selected Nexter to equip its Leclerc main battle tanks with a Terminal Information System (TIS) called Icone (Ergonomic Communications and Navigation Interface). The initial phase of the contract covers the equipment of more than 100 Leclerc tanks.

The TIS has been developed together with EADS Defense Electronics Systems. It permits the exchange of digitised data including tactical situation and the graphic orders displayed on a background map, between the vehicle and higher level command.

LECLERC MBT ARMAMENT
The 120mm 52-calibre smoothbore gun is fitted with a thermal sleeve and muzzle reference system. Fumes are exhausted with a compressed air unit. The gun, which fires APFSD (Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot) and HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank) rounds, has a firing rate of 12 rounds/minute. The aiming system is entirely electrical for improved acceleration.

The tank has an automatic loading system, which allows cross-country fire-on-the-move against mobile targets. 22 rounds of ready-to-use ammunition are carried. The tank is also armed with a 12.7mm machine gun co-axial with the main gun and a roof-mounted 7.62mm anti-aircraft gun.

LECLERC DIGITAL FIRE CONTROL AND OBSERVATION SYSTEMS
The digital fire control system allows the gunner or commander to select six different targets to be engaged in just over 30 seconds. The system's digital computer allows realtime treatment of data from the tank's sensors and sights.

"In 2006, Giat unveiled the Leclerc optimised for urban operation."The commander has eight periscopes and an HL-70 stabilised panoramic sight from Safran (formerly SAGEM). HL-70 includes laser rangefinder, day channel, and second-generation image intensifier.

Recognition range is 4km and identification range is 2.5km. The commander has a display showing the gunner's thermal sight.

The gunner's station is equipped with gunner's main sight, three periscopes and a visual display unit. The gunner's stabilised sight is SAVAN 20 from Safran, which contains a three-field-of-view thermal imager.

The driver's station has three periscopes, of which the centre periscope is the OB-60 driver's sight developed by Thales Optronique (formerly Thomson-CSF), which has day and night channels.

GALIX COMBAT VEHICLE PROTECTION SYSTEM
Leclerc is fitted with Galix combat vehicle protection system, developed by Nexter and Lacroix Tous Artifices. Nine launch tubes for the 80mm grenades are fitted on either side of the turret roof. The Galix system can launch smoke or anti-personnel grenades or infrared decoys.

Nexter has developed the KBCM defensive aids suite which can befitted to the Leclerc. KBCM includes laser warner, missile warner, infrared jammer and the Galix system and can be integrated with the FINDERS battle management system. The French Army has evaluated the system.

SACM V8X-1500 HYPERBAR DIESEL ENGINE
The Leclerc is equipped with an SACM V8X-1500 Hyperbar diesel engine providing 1,500hp at 2,500rpm. An electronic engine management system is supplied by Safran. The SESM ESM 500 automatic transmission has a hydrostatic transmission unit and five forward and two reverse gears. The engine is fitted with a Suralmo-Hyperbar high pressure gas turbine. The engine provides a road speed over 70km/h and cross country speed up to 50km/h.

The tank also has a Turbomeca TM-307B gas turbine auxiliary power unit. The hydropneumatic suspension system is from Societe d'Applications des Machines Motrices (SAMM).

UAE TROPICALISED LECLERC MAIN BATTLE TANK
The tropicalised Leclerc is optimised for tropical and desert conditions to meet the requirement of the UAE. A new powerpack and diesel auxiliary power unit has been installed and the hull is extended at the back to accommodate the powerpack and larger fuel tanks. The Euro Powerpack has the MTU 883 V-12 diesel engine providing 1,500hp, coupled with Renk HSWL295 TM automatic transmission.

"Leclerc is fitted with Galix combat vehicle protection system."
For this and export versions of the tank, Nexter has developed the Leclerc Battle Management Equipment (LBME), a derivative of FINDERS. The HL-70 commander's sight has been replaced by the HL-80, also from SFIM.

NEW GENERATION RECOVERY VEHICLE
The Leclerc New Generation Recovery Vehicle (NGRV) has a longer hull with seven pairs of wheels. An hydraulically operated blade at the front of the vehicle is used to clear a path through battlefield obstacles. The vehicle is equipped with an hydraulic crane rated to lift 30,000kg loads and a winch with 180m cable rated at 35,000kg. A secondary winch is rated at 1,500kg. The crane and winch systems are supplied by Rheinmetall Landsystemes GmbH.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leclerc/

[onodera]

Could be better. If everything goes well, it'll take us 5-10 years to modernize our armour. We still have to do something with older tanks, for example, we sent a lot of T-62s into Georgia.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Asher
What is the best MBT?

I seem to remember the Leopard 2 being the winner of some NATO tank competition a few years ago, but The M1A2 is the best tested under actual battle conditions.

[Tattila the Hun]

Actuall battle conditions... Against Iraqi T-62's. Color me unimpresssed?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Actuall battle conditions... Against Iraqi T-62's. Color me unimpresssed?

It would've been more impressive had it been against the Finnish Tanks. IIRC, all Finnish Tanks have been retrofitted to become portable saunas.

[Lancer]

Thanks for the info PLATO. It would seem that NATO is far more powerful than Russia.

[Sir Og]

I am pretty sure that the French in early nineteenth century and the Germans in the middle of the twentieth thought the same.

[Saras]

And were probably right - you just shouldn't attack them IN RUSSIA.

[dannubis]

Or attack them in winter... not in spring.

[BeBMan]

Tankthreadi!

[Saras]

UK defend vs USSR Assault:

[BeBMan]

SteelPanthers

PanzerGeneral

HOI/2