Agreement reached to impeach President

[Ramo]

Pakistan is not going to war with the US. The very idea is ridiculous.

Covert ops against the Karzai gov't is another story, though.

The way past that problem is to start viewing the conflict in Afghanstan as, in large part, a proxy war between Pakistani and Indian hardliners. This was the case during the Soviet occupation, through the civil war in the '90's, up to today. That's why the most recent major attack was against the Indian embassy. Like with a lot of problems in the world, just a little bit of competent diplomacy could go a long way.

[Ramo]

In other news:

Pakistan may step up action against insurgents
Proposals include sending a commando unit against insurgents near the Afghanistan border, officials say.
By Josh Meyer, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
August 3, 2008
WASHINGTON -- Anxious to avoid a U.S. intervention or cutoff of funds, Pakistan's government is proposing military and intelligence changes that both countries say are needed to counter the growing threat from insurgents, officials say.

Pakistan wants to deploy a specially trained unit of its Special Service Group into tribal areas along its western border. The region has become a haven for Al Qaeda and Taliban forces that increasingly are attacking Western soldiers in neighboring Afghanistan, officials say.


The Pakistani commando division, trained by the United States, is an elite special operations force similar to the Army's Special Forces, or Green Berets. Pakistan has been criticized for sending conventional troops who do not have training in the kind of guerrilla warfare techniques that U.S. officials say are needed to fight the militants in the tribal areas.

"The Americans tell us that they need action now," said a senior Pakistani official who was in Washington last week during Prime Minister Yusaf Raza Gillani's meetings with President Bush. Deployment of the special Pakistani force "will meet the American demand of immediate action."

The senior Pakistani official said the proposals were calibrated to protect Pakistan's sovereignty. The government in Islamabad also has proposed allowing the United States to deploy more sophisticated equipment in the tribal areas in a joint effort to track and kill insurgents, officials said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the classified nature of the actions under consideration and their diplomatic sensitivity.



Coordinating spies

Pakistan's military has told the Pentagon that it is planning to move a major unit of its regular army into the tribal areas. And senior Pakistani officials have proposed a plan in which the intelligence services of both countries would work to end the conflict between the spies and informants that each uses in the tribal areas and who have often been working against each other.

U.S. officials have accused Pakistan's top spy agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, of assisting extremists linked to anti-Western activities, including the bombing last month of the Indian Embassy in Kabul, the Afghan capital.

Pakistan, in turn, has criticized the CIA for cultivating assets in the region that it believes are against Islamabad's interests.

"The Pakistan government wants to show that we want to bring terror in our region to an end and that we want to work with the United States for that purpose," the senior Pakistani official said. "But we also believe that there is more that the United States can do as well, and that we have asked it to do."

Pakistan has asked for more intelligence-sharing, training and equipment for its forces, including night-vision goggles and the latest technology for intercepting communications, said Nadeem Haider Kiani, Pakistan's press attache in Washington.

The new coalition government, elected in February, also has agreed to negotiate ways in which the United States could use unmanned Predator aircraft for missile strikes against high-value targets in Pakistan in cooperation with the Islamabad government, officials say.

The United States has launched many of the so-called unilateral missile strikes against suspected Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders in recent years with little or no notice because Bush administration officials believed that some ISI members might tip off the targets. Such strikes have angered Pakistan, especially one last week that came hours before Gillani's meeting with Bush.

Gillani and his aides got an earful from both the White House and Congress about the need to act far more aggressively in the tribal areas.

Some in the Bush administration are pushing to send U.S. forces into the tribal areas. And prominent members of Congress are threatening to hold up at least $225 million in counter-terrorism funds earmarked for Pakistan, and as much as $60 million a month more once the new round of budget deliberations begins in December, unless Pakistan moves more quickly and effectively.

Several senior officials would not comment on what Pakistan has proposed, saying that disclosing details could undermine the efforts. Officially, the CIA and the Pentagon also had no comment. One U.S. intelligence official, however, confirmed that some proposals under discussion would allow the CIA to improve its capabilities in the tribal areas, possibly in concert with Pakistani intelligence.



'Certain actions'

Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S., Husain Haqqani, confirmed that various proposals were discussed during last week's meetings, but he said he could not talk about them.

Kiani, the press attache, said, "They have agreed to take certain measures, but it would not be appropriate to make them public, so that the results could be achieved.

"But we are discussing and have agreed to take certain actions to strengthen relations between the two countries and to fight the war against terrorism more successfully so our mutual objectives could be achieved."

The senior Pakistan official said the government is working with the military and the ISI to gain their full cooperation for the proposed initiatives.

"They haven't said no and they haven't said yes," said the official. "It is all very delicate."

Several U.S. officials said they were skeptical that Pakistan could deliver on the proposals given the historical independence of the military and the intelligence agency.

"If what they are saying is true, that is big," said Rep. Mark Kirk, R-Ill., who is on a budget panel that oversees foreign aid to Pakistan. "But they have a habit of making commitments following a high-level political visit . . . and then not following through."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-fg-uspakistan3-2008aug03,0,3813900.story

[Elok]

Gah, there are too many damned -stans. They should be merged into one big lump labeled "STAYAWAY" on the map.

[Maniac]

Why hasn't the Pakistani military intervened yet??

[Imran Siddiqui]

No one really knows how much Kayani likes his former boss.

[Maniac]

Bah, I was planning to post tomorrow:
"Has the Pakistani military still not intervened?"

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I wouldn't say he's vital. In fact he's a hinderence. Everyone knows Al Qaeda is using Pakistan's tribal areas as a safe haven and the Pakistani government refuses to do anything about it because it is afraid of civil war. Screw that. The US needs to go in and take what ever measures necissary to secure the tribal regions, yes, they will resist and that's why every means necissary has to be on the table. If it takes destroying whole cities a la WW2 then I'm for it.

Woo! Let's destabilize a nuclear-armed country. What could possibly go wrong?

For Al Qaeda I take out all the stops.

So, are you saying we should defeat Al Qaeda or kill more innocent bystanders than they are, this part doesn't quite seem clear anymore from your statements.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No one really knows how much Kayani likes his former boss.

Why would he save his former boss when he could take the job for himself?

[Theben]

Originally posted by Elok
Gah, there are too many damned -stans. They should be merged into one big lump labeled "STAYAWAY" on the map.

Here be Dragons.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why would he save his former boss when he could take the job for himself?

Exactly. Or be the hero by standing aside as the civilian government ousts the massively unpopular Musharraf.

[Patroklos]

Still, dropping bombs on the territory of a country without official concent of the government of said country is called war.

Check the Geneva Convention about what happens when a neutral power is not capable of keeping belligerents from using its territory.

And Pakistan does have a decent Navy relative to the rest of the world. Some relatively modern frigates and a few diesel subs. I did some operations with them once upon a time, and they still send auxiliaries to the Gulf for coalition use. In fact, a Pakistani flag officer has been in command of both the GOA and HOA CTFs in the past couple years.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Victor Galis

So, are you saying we should defeat Al Qaeda or kill more innocent bystanders than they are, this part doesn't quite seem clear anymore from your statements.

We're talking about the tribal areas which are home to most of the Islamic terrorist groups in south Asia. No sympathy for them; we're talking about the heart of the evil beast where even OBL finds most people love him.

[Dinner]

I wouldn't gush on about Pakistan's navy. They got ****ed up in port by the Indian navy in the last war.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Exactly. Or be the hero by standing aside as the civilian government ousts the massively unpopular Musharraf.

What part of Pakistan's history would lead you to believe in thier Army's pro-democratic tendencies?

[Maniac]

So, first good riddance to Musharraf, and THEN a military coup?