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GM Loses Another $16 Billion -- Bankrupt?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Julian Delphiki
    How about government bailout? Those seem to be fashionable in the free market of Soviet states of America nowadays.
    That's what I'm afraid of. Don't rub it in.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #17
      The two big problems (besides the part about they make gas guzzlers when people don't want them) are pension fund requirements and extreme health care costs. None of their foreign competitors are forced to pay for health care costs because the government provides it much more cheaply. The only way for the big 3 to get rid of those extra costs is to declare bankruptcy.

      Oh, and then there is the problem that the management agreed to pay workers even if they shut down production and even if it is the result of the unions striking. Basically, just really ****ty management choice.
      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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      • #18
        @ Fun: DanS is complaining about unions stealing money from hard-working portfolios.


        Plus they eat babies.
        I'm consitently stupid- Japher
        I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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        • #19
          How's that going to get rid of the unions who are the source of the problems you speak of, Oerdin?
          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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          • #20
            Rather, I'm complaining that the unions -- and the employees by extension -- don't view themselves as partners in the business. Therefore, they do stupid stuff all the time that is detrimental to the business.

            In essence, the unions own GM. And they're happily running it into the ground. It has been like this for over half a century, best as I can tell.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Theben
              @ Fun: DanS is complaining about unions stealing money from hard-working portfolios.


              Plus they eat babies.
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DanS
                I think that I have made myself clear.

                Net of dividends, over the course of its 100-year existence, GM has lost its shareholders $40 billion.
                Adjust for inflation please and realize that the company is more then just the dividend. It likely will go bankrupt but it is entirely the result of bad management not the unions.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                • #23
                  You are naive, Oerdin.
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DinoDoc
                    How's that going to get rid of the unions who are the source of the problems you speak of, Oerdin?
                    Bull. Management gave in when it should have held fast. Management kept building gas guzzlers 30 years after it was obvious they should have invested in more efficient vehicles. For the better part of 10 years everyone has told them they've let their car side shrivel and languish with old product no one wanted because they wanted to concentrate just on SUVs and trucks.

                    They knew this day would come and did nothing to plan for it largely because of blood suckers like DanS who wanted them to concentrate just on next quarter and not on the company's long term strategic position. That's a very American failing and that's why Toyota can spend the extra cash to keep both it's cars and trucks up to date (even when one isn't selling well) in order to improve their long term position but if the Big 3 did that then people like DanS would have whined endless they they could have got another $0.03 per share dividend. In the end the management gave in to both the unions and the short sighted greed of the money men. These are all failures of management.
                    Last edited by Dinner; August 1, 2008, 12:12.
                    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by DanS
                      You are naive, Oerdin.
                      I was going to say the same about you. Always willing to blame the worker but not the management even when it is obvious the management completely failed at their job.

                      In any event please adjust for 100 years of inflation adjusted dividends or shut up.
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                      • #26
                        I never absolved management from responsibility. You are intentionally misreading me.
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                        • #27
                          Management and workers failed. Happy?
                          John Brown did nothing wrong.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Oerdin
                            They knew this day would come and did nothing to plan for it largely because of blood suckers like DanS
                            You can attack a posters arguments... but that is a personal attack. Enough of that crap.

                            Discuss the topic... NOT the posters.
                            Keep on Civin'
                            RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                            • #29
                              No, I think rather than "bloodsuckers" he meant "suckers" -- i.e., little old ladies who are now eating cat food because their investments in GM are worthless.

                              Thankfully, I bear no resemblance to that bunch.
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                              • #30
                                How many little old ladies is that?
                                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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