The Official God FAQ

[MJW]

Originally posted by Elok


You're something of a puzzle to me. Last time you talked about this old riddle of mine, you made it sound like I was seriously advocating egotism and sounding like a jerk (i.e., like you missed my point entirely). Just where do you stand on this, if anywhere?

I won't state what I think. This is because I am in the minority. This will lead me to leave the thread because I won't waste time defending points. This will make me "lose".

If I was on a different board I would be in the majority.

[Zanarkand]

So no contradictions, mistakes, or falsehoods then. Are you quite sure about that?

Yes.

Why does God need a Holy Spirit to perform what should for him be a fairly simple task? I though he was omnipotent.

The Holy Spirit is a part of God, not a different person or a different spirit.

OK, How about pink unicorns, giant flying spaghetti-monsters, and mutant star-goats? Might they exist too?

Well, it would've suprised me if they existed, since I've never heard of anyone who has seen these..creatures. I haven't seen God standing in front of me, but I can feel His presence, and I can hear Him when He speaks to me.

What if I believe in the giant flying spaghetti-monster, and I assure you, if you don't worship his noodly appendages, you will burn in hell for all eternity. Is that worth discussing? Meanwhile, I propose a government based on this belief, and compulsory lessons in schools declaring the righteousness of these beliefs. Also, I have several million believers prepared to vote for candidates who intend to form this government. Would expending energy on this subject be a waste of time?

If you believed in a flying spaghetti-monster, that would be your choice. But no, maybe it wouldn't be worth discussing, since this flying spaghetti monster hasn't given mankind a chance to believe in him/her/it, and therefor it's/her/his existence would have been a bit pointless. God has given mankind a very simply choice. And he given mankind information about who he is, what he wants, and how we can live our lives with Him. If the spaghetti-monster does that, maybe then it will be worth discussing. But that remains to be seen.

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by Zanarkand


Well, I believe there are countless scriptures where the writers have been inspired by God..but that doesn't mean the writers were directly guided by God. A man can write a scripture inspired by God, but the scripture itself may end up as a pretty unbiblical piece of document.

As stated above, I disagree with you big time here. A scripture that does not agree with God is by no means inspired by him.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Nikolai


As stated above, I disagree with you big time here. A scripture that does not agree with God is by no means inspired by him.

Are you saying that god popped into existence approximately 2000 years ago ?

If not, that he really didn't care about what happend here, and certainly didn't cared about people outside the roman empire ?

[Jon Miller]

Hmm, I could jump in. However, it might make things too complicated.

JM

[Zanarkand]

What do you mean, would have been cute? I know that's how the game actually ends, my next-dorm neighbor freshman year wouldn't stop playing the game. Wiki or pretty much anyone who's played it through can back me up on this. You fight the crazy prophet-lady who tells you the Sin thing's a farce, then you talk to the zombie-bishop who tells you God's inside Sin, then you whack Sin by first destroying his flying sperm-whale shell and then killing your dad, who's Sin's true form and looks like a homeless biker, and finally it's Metroid-God. They hit you over the head with the "church is evil" bit the whole time. The whole game is like Pullman's Dark Materials only with more sympathetic characters and a less ludicrous premise.

But the God in FFX is a different one that the one in reality, so it doesn't really point a finger on christianity.

Well, how do you then decide wich one is written purely trough gods interference and wich is a mere elaboration of gods words ?

As stated above, I disagree with you big time here. A scripture that does not agree with God is by no means inspired by him.

What I mean by scripture being inspired by God, is writers who have used God as a source of inspiration, and has not necessarily been guided by Him.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Elok
...I'm really not sure what you're getting at here. Are you arguing with me, or not? Sorry for the brief answers, but I'm juggling arguments and I don't understand yours very well.

I'm not arguing with you, no. I'm just incompletely expounding upon my belief system - which is significantly more than I do most of the time on Apolyton.

The gist of what I'm getting at this: If a valid moral system exists, it comes from some kind of supernatural something. The only way to know and understand the supernatural is if the entire universe, as one sentient thing, achieves a state of omniscience.

In the mean time, before that happens, there is no valid moral system humans can be expected to follow, and as such our existence is completely amoral.

However, there are certain actions we could take which would hasten the arrival of universal omniscience, and certain actions we could take which would delay its arrival. I'm in the process of developing a system for governing human behavior which I believe would bring about this omniscience in the fastest manner possible.

This system is not good or evil, right or wrong - but I believe it's the only way we can go about discovering what is.

Btw, feel free to discontinue the conversation if you wish. At this point I'm really just musing in a way that's only tangentially related to what we were talking about earlier.

This all comes from me believing most humans approach religion, divinity, and spirituality the wrong way. They try to see what use these concepts have in their lives, either personally or as applied to humankind. I think these concepts transcend humankind and we need to understand what greater significance they have beyond ourselves. Thus my goal of achieving omniscience before attempting to apply it to humanity or my life in particular.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Elok


Yes, but is there some reason why he shouldn't want your wallet? Money is useful stuff, you know. Is there a logical reason why he shouldn't if there's no cop and you're half his size? These questions are my answer. Is wanting to do something for no good reason superior to wanting to do something out of self-interest of some kind? And if so, in what way are you superior? Logically? Idunno, the guy with a sound reason trumps the guy with no reason in my book. Ethically? It's ethics/morals under discussion in the first place. You can't appeal to the accused as his own judge.

I feel that you're begging the question here, assuming that you ought to be moral because, well, you ought to be moral. That's not an answer. No offense, but it's kind of a cop-out.

You only assume there's no reason because of the firmly-held thesis (no pun intended) that morality comes from God, and not from a combination of nature and social rules (which I'd ultimately argue are a part of nature). For Humanists, a dignity and respect for fellow-men *is* the reason. That might seem like an alien concept, a cop-out or a circular argument to you but it doesn't to me. In fact it is inspiring.

The bloke who sits next to me on at work actually found someone's wallet on the train. He phoned him up via a number on a business card in the wallet and arranged to hand it back, unmolested. That was a wonderful act by someone who is a genuinely nice guy. I shall ask him why he did it.

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Are you saying that god popped into existence approximately 2000 years ago ?

If not, that he really didn't care about what happend here, and certainly didn't cared about people outside the roman empire ?

No. Where dco you get that from? The Bible did not come into being 2000 years ago, it was begun long before that. The Old Testament is as much part of the Bible as the New Testament is.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Zanarkand
What I mean by scripture being inspired by God, is writers who have used God as a source of inspiration, and has not necessarily been guided by Him.

No offense, but haven't most writers of godly scriptures no matter wich, used god as inspiration ?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Nikolai
He is omnipotent. And The Holy Spirit is God.

Reeks of Polytheism to me.

[Zanarkand]

That may be, but anyone can use God as a source of inspiration, and write something that goes against the Bible. The writers of the Bible were guided by God.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Nikolai


No. Where dco you get that from? The Bible did not come into being 2000 years ago, it was begun long before that. The Old Testament is as much part of the Bible as the New Testament is.

Oh, you are into the slavery and all the other nastiness found in OT


Well, that really doesn't help you much. add a thousind year more doesn't really make a difference when we are talking about up to 200.000 years.

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Reeks of Polytheism to me.

Many people thinks that when they do not know Christian theology. In short(and this is hard to grasp, I know. Christians have struggled with this concept for millennias), God is one. But he is revealing himself to the world as three persons; the Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit. Each of them reflect a part of the one true God.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Zanarkand
That may be, but anyone can use God as a source of inspiration, and write something that goes against the Bible. The writers of the Bible were guided by God.

And that you know because .... ?

Besides, what about all that that god inspired before the bible ?