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US heading for record $490 billion budget deficit.

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  • #46
    That ratio is based on the McCain tax cuts not being made permanent after a given amount of time. In other words, the last two years (for example) may not include the McCain tax cuts, so that ratio over 10 years certainly can't be used to represent 8.

    Plus, the assumption McCain doesn't want the cuts to be made permanent is a ridiculous one. Bush, for example, wants his tax cuts to be made permanent, and McCain's explict justification for flip-flopping on the Bush tax cuts is that he doesn't believe in revoking already passed tax cuts.
    The only one assuming anything here is you.

    But given your "worst case" scenario above, it was discussed in the next paragraph of the Intro, and it increases the revenue loss of McCain to 4 trillion for ten years. That still leaves McCain at 3748B all told, more than a trillion less than Obama.

    That's in addition to the double-counting of increased spending thing.
    There is no double counting, the TPC did not count it as I already showed you.
    "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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    • #47
      There is no double counting, the TPC did not count it as I already showed you.
      On second thought, there must be. McCain has proposed a tax credit for health insurance, so that would come in on the revenue side. Obama's probably coming in on the expenditure side. Assuming that the NTU only looks at the expenditure side, it includes Obama's health care proposal and omits McCain's - which isn't accounted for anywhere. The 100:1 ratio in increased health spending that the NTU describes makes that clear.

      There maybe other such instances. As I said, I don't think you can casually throw together the numbers like that.

      Edit: And this isn't small potatoes. I don't remember the cost of McCain's health care proposal, but you're adding $800 billion to Obama's ledger over 8 years, without looking at the McCain side.

      Also, none of this includes Obama's carbon credit auction which would be a pretty huge source of revenue.
      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
      -Bokonon

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      • #48
        The only one assuming anything here is you.
        No, you clearly were making ridiculous assumptions... You can reread what I wrote if you want, I think I made myself clear.
        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
        -Bokonon

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        • #49
          On second thought, there must be. McCain has proposed a tax credit for health insurance, so that would come in on the revenue side. Obama's probably coming in on the expenditure side. Assuming that the NTU only looks at the expenditure side, it includes Obama's health care proposal and omits McCain's - which isn't accounted for anywhere. The 100:1 ratio in increased health spending that the NTU describes makes that clear.
          1.) the NTU is calculating the "cost" of proposals, that takes into account cuts and increases in spending.

          2.) The NPC is using "non health tax proposals," for the thrid time.

          No, you clearly were making ridiculous assumptions... You can reread what I wrote if you want, I think I made myself clear.
          Yes, it is clear you can't read sources or do simple math. But to placate you, I did the caculation even if his taxes were permanent and McCain is still a trillion less.

          Quote where the NPC included spending or don't, until you produce such a quote my numbers stand (with only the level of confidence I gave them myself mind you).
          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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          • #50
            Did you not read what I wrote? If the NTU doesn't include tax cuts (which is what McCain's health care proposal is about), the McCain health care proposal clearly isn't accounted for anywhere.

            As I said, I'm sure there are other instances of this sort of thing.
            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
            -Bokonon

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            • #51
              Quote where the NPC included spending or don't, either action speaks for itself.
              I conceded the point about the TPC and spending. Three posts above. Are you blind?
              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
              -Bokonon

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              • #52
                I myself said the healt care taxes could swing things wildely, we can only go off the numbers we have which is what GePap was using and whose comment I was addressing with the calculation in the first place.
                "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                • #53
                  I conceded the point about the TPC and spending. Three posts above. Are you blind?
                  I did, I apologize.
                  "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                    I think what Patty was showing is that Obama's claims for PAYGO are highly fanciful.
                    And I'm willing to believe it. Neither of these guys is fiscally responsible... which makes sense, because they were nominated by parties which are fiscally irresponsible (which are made up of people who are fiscally irresponsible)...

                    -Arrian
                    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                    • #55
                      But to placate you, I did the caculation even if his taxes were permanent and McCain is still a trillion less.
                      To placate me? You did some shoddy accounting, own up to it.
                      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                      -Bokonon

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                      • #56
                        And I'm willing to believe it. Neither of these guys is fiscally responsible...
                        ...and both need to be shot.


                        To placate me? You did some shoddy accounting, own up to it.
                        I provided the source Ramo, why would I provide the source if I was trying to hide something?

                        It is irrelevant, Obama is still the FAR the biggest deficet spender from what we now even with the tax cuts permanent (and Obama is planning on keeping some of those too, as per the article).
                        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                        • #57
                          I myself said the healt care taxes could swing things wildely, we can only go off the numbers we have which is what GePap was using and whose comment I was addressing with the calculation in the first place.
                          Given that health care is 80% of the difference ($800 billion) you claim, this is hardly a point that you can sweep under the carpet.

                          And as I said, there's still the carbon credit auction that ought to generate beaucoup revenues...
                          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                          -Bokonon

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                          • #58
                            And you DanSed me with the spending thing, I don't feel so bad about missing it now
                            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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