Will CERN make black holes that will consume the Earth?

[Lancer]

I really don't know. I also think that some of the physics guys only think they know. Others of the physics guys think that turning it on would be a big mistake. The whole discussion is about nothing less than the end of this world and all humanity. I say that flipping it on should be considered at length and be a decision of all mankind.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I think that's an excellent rule

Yeah, that means all of you non-lawyers can shut the **** up about the law on this forum .

[Ramo]

So you are basically saying no one should opine until they have in depth education in that subject. So no one should make a decision except for the experts in that field? How would this apply in public policy?

The vast majority of the physics nowadays can't, and doesn't needed to be, communicated to the general public. The same obviously isn't true about public policy; that's the "technical field" that most needs to be communicated to the public.

Unless there are major changes in human society, I think there should basically be a moratorium on post-19th century physics in news media. Key words like "string theory" should trigger some sort of sanction by press associations.

[Dinner]

I rule geology on this forum!

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
That particular incident is celebrated in my sig

BTW I'm going to be in Santa Barbara next weekend for a friend's birthday if you want to hang out. If not no biggy. We plan on spending most of our time piss drunk though there will probably be a BBQ or something.

[Kuciwalker]

I'm flying to LA next weekend

(Going to SIGGRAPH, a computer graphics conference.)

edit: I lied! That's weekend after next. Give me a time and place and I'll be there

[Wiglaf]

I am also having a party this weekend, naked women everywhere. Please do not ask for the address, it is not something I would give out. Needless to say it is a big piece of real estate. Will somebody please lower the temperature in my pants.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Who was the Croatian kid who got into an argument with KrazyKitty in the last CERN thread? I remember laughing my ass off because the kid told him he was wrong and he should go talk to someone who has a PHD in small particle physics! (or something to that effect)

The result was hilarious when he found out KK was a PHD in small particle physics. I believe JM also chimed in (and he also has or almost has his PHD in physics).

Croatia =/= Slovenia



Also I didn't think he was wrong, I just resented him for being a smartass and overly dismissive towards me, when, so I assumed at the time, knew more than he did.


Being wrong was hilarious in that instance.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


So you are basically saying no one should opine until they have in depth education in that subject. So no one should make a decision except for the experts in that field? How would this apply in public policy?

Democracy

Technocracy

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


Croatia =/= Slovenia



Also I didn't think he was wrong, I just resented him for being a smartass and overly dismissive towards me, when, so I assumed at the time, knew more than he did.


Being wrong was hilarious in that instance.

Sorry about forgetting which country you were from (I at least remembered it was in the former Yugoslavia though ). KH can be an arrogant ***** sometimes but he's fun to go out drinking with. Last time he ended up getting really drunk and got lost in the crowd in NYC. He even lost his hotel key and ended up banging on the hotel door at 4am drunker then a skunk. The guy at the front desk supposedly didn't want to let him in because they thought he was just some random drunk.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I'm flying to LA next weekend

(Going to SIGGRAPH, a computer graphics conference.)

edit: I lied! That's weekend after next. Give me a time and place and I'll be there

I'll PM you with the address to my friend's place in Goleta. I'll have to call him tomorrow sometime after I get off of work.

[Lancer]

Posted without comment...

http://www.lhcfacts.org/?cat=124

Archive for the ‘A - Wikipedia Censorship Underway’ Category
Wikipedia LHC Page Is Being Altered By CERN
Wednesday, July 9th, 2008
heck back soon for all the details of the ongoing war over the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LHC This article used to have a significant safety section. But recently, safety was moved to it’s own article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety of the Large_Hadron_Collider

Changes are now being made to delete key information even in the separate Safety article and a coordinated effort is underway to censor Jtankers and others who have been contributing editors for some time now.

-Another

The discussion below details an incident at Wikipedia. Recently I was blocked from adding references to the Wikipedia article “Safety of the Large Hadron Collider”, that challenged the probability that Hawking Radiation might cause micro black holes to evaporate. A CERN employee and Wikipedia administrator became annoyed with my efforts and reported my conduct to the Wikipedia Administrators’ Incidents board under the heading “LHC Fringe Theorists”.

At this same time, a notice was placed on my talk page that my talk page had been
nominated for deletion. I’m not sure what would happen if my talk page was deleted, as I don’t think this has ever been done to an active user before, but it may have left my account crippled in its ability to communicate.

After the two actions above, I stopped editing the Wikipedia article. If the intent was to silence me, they made some progress. The discussion below details what I believe is an attempt at censorship by persons with a clear conflict of interest IMHO (In My Humble Opinion).

Terms Used:
* COI: Conflict of Interest
* NPOV: Neutral Point of View
* DR: Dispute Resolution

- JTankers

…

Update… (July 14, 2008)

The Wikipedia article Safety of the Large Hadron Collider now contains a summary of some of the basic safety arguments of the organized safety opposition, after a long battle with CERN supporters to fight censorship of these concerns.

The concerns are not just from legal action and from what is raised in the media as the article still tends to imply. The safety concerns are lead by world recognized, credible scientists. Dr. Otto Rossler is an eminent award winning professor of theoretical sciences and a significant contributor to Chaos Theory. Professor Rossler’s research indicates that safety has not been reasonably proven, and danger is very plausible.

Published peer reviewed papers from science professors that question one of the of the primary safety arguments (Hawking Radiation) are still censored from the article. A 2004 Delphi study showing up to 50% doubt among physicists polled is still censored from the article. (Physicists do have reasonable doubt about Hawking Radiation, contrary to what the article implies).

From the Wikipedia article Safety of the Large Hadron Collider:

Concerns raised in the media

Nuclear physicist Walter L. Wagner has argued that if Micro black holes are produced at the LHC, they might not decay as predicted by CERN, since Hawking radiation is not an experimentally-tested or naturally observed phenomenon and might not exist.[8][22]

Professor Otto Rössler has stated that micro black holes created in the LHC would grow exponentially, accreting the Earth in 50 months to 50 years, and he has sought scientific debate on his research[23] before the LHC particle collisions begin.[24]

- JTankers
—-

Update June 20, 2008

What part is undue weight? This just feels like censorship of concerns from the general public and from credible PHD level scientists. The conflict of interest could not be more clear. I have nothing to gain that I do not share with the defendants (safety of Earth), CERN has potential Nobel prizes, future employment, fame and fortune, potentially at the cost of Earth 50 months to 50 years from now. The debate could not be more relevant now and could not affect more people. To bury the concerns another link level deeper would certainly be better than completely censoring the concerns, and I can accept the solution. But I think the undue weight is given to the concerns of CERN and they will not be satisfied until the article appears to suggest that there is no conceivable danger, when in fact safety arguments are no more substantial than unverified original research. CERN’s safety analysis is original research that has not been accepted by peer reviewed journal for publication, only approved by a 4/5 majority internal assessment which called some major argument unverified and peer review of the self published work is still in progress. A CERN employee editor has even had links to published peer reviewed papers that challenge the primary safety argument, the probability that Hawking Radiation exists removed against editor consensus. How can that be justified? According to Professor Dr. Otto Rössler the results of CERN’s actions could result in the greatest crime against humanity imaginable. Dr. Rossler is arguably among the world’s most eminent living contributors to theoretical sciences, a former university visiting professor of theoretical physics (a fact suspiciously removed from Dr. Rossler’s Wikipedia bio June 2, 2008 without prior discussion) and founded a new field of theoretical physics in collaboration with MIT Physics Professor David_Finkelstein who is historically significant for his contribution to black hole theory. The public and other scientists have the right to know that scientific consensus is credibly challenged by multiple credible PHD level theoretical scientists. More importantly, we deserve credible concerns to be addressed before collisions begin. Wikipedia should not be a public relation tool to influence public opinion and limit information to other physicists by censoring descent. This is a very significant issue.

[Kuciwalker]

1) The existence of Hawking radiation is irrelevant to the conclusive argument (that I've presented here!) that the world will not end if the LHC goes online.

2) As a consequence, the citations of peer-review articles were removed because they're not relevant.

3) Of course Wikipedia is going to take down his post. Tons of people have probably made the same edit. They do that to all fringe science crap.

[fed1943]

Imran: some law people are not just lawyers, also diplomats.
So...
non-law people has the right speak about law;
and, as they know less, they also have the right to be more verbal.
Best regards,

[Maquiladora]

Re: Will CERN make black holes that will consume the Earth?

Originally posted by Lancer

http://www.lhcfacts.org/

Over 60% of poll responants believe it isn't worth the risk. What about Poly folks?

Get yourself an HEV suit and crowbar.