The USA: Moral of the story - don't piss off the Welsh!

[MOBIUS]

Taking advantage of the cheap flights to Copenhagen and being welcomed with open arms (and legs) in Tivoli Gardens after midnight...

Yep, those Welsh girls just ain't as easy as the girls from Denmark...

[MOBIUS]

Re: Re: Re: The USA: Moral of the story - don't piss off the Welsh!

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Yay! Take that Wales...you're not even a country, just a principality, aka, Englands b*tch

Hey I thought you were on my side!?

What about your experiences in Mexico?

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Taking advantage of the cheap flights to Copenhagen and being welcomed with open arms (and legs) in Tivoli Gardens after midnight...

Yep, those Welsh girls just ain't as easy as the girls from Denmark...

Since Tivoli Gardens closes at midnight, I assume that your experience of danish womens stems from our local prostitutes located pretty close to Tivoli.

Doesn't it really suck a bit that you have to leave your country to get laid ?

[Provost Harrison]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The USA: Moral of the story - don't piss off the Welsh!

Originally posted by MOBIUS

Hey I thought you were on my side!?

What about your experiences in Mexico?

Yeah, good point, but I've not had the chance to make fun of the Welsh for a while Saying that though I think it is good that America actually derives from a Welsh name, quite a cool fact

[MOBIUS]

Not to worry, we're getting plenty of Danish tourists here in Cardiff now the Euro is so strong...

There were plenty here last year when Mikkel Kessler got the crap beaten out of him...

[MOBIUS]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The USA: Moral of the story - don't piss off the Welsh!

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Yeah, good point, but I've not had the chance to make fun of the Welsh for a while Saying that though I think it is good that America actually derives from a Welsh name, quite a cool fact

Not to mention the fact that some people think that the Stars and Stripes may have been copied from the same guy's coat of arms...

What is it with these yanks (sorry, Vespuccians - Vesps?) - no ****ing originality...!?

[Will9]

Re: Re: Re: The USA: Moral of the story - don't piss off the Welsh!

Originally posted by MOBIUS


13/16ths Welsh...



25/32nds Welsh...



Near completely Welsh...



27/32nds Welsh. Once again, only a small difference from John Adams numbers.



7/8ths Welsh...

the six men (I'm not including Davis and Lincoln since I'm too lazy to research their ancestry) you claim as Welsh:

Jefferson: the theory that he is Welsh is proven to be false. His mother is English and he had 2 English great-grandparents. Therefore he is English. BTW, when I Google that Jefferson quote you posted, this is the only result. It also says there is no evidence to support the theory and Jefferson knoew little about his father's side.

Madison: No clue where the theory came from

Monroe: No clue where the theory came from

The Adamses: the theory is based is based on the fact that have ancestors with the Welsh surname "Ap Adams." I have German surname, does that mean I'm German? No, I'm 1/2 Italian and 1/2 (Non-Native) American (actually, there is some Cherokee in that half, either 1/16 or 1/32) So the theory that they are Welsh just because of their surname is based on nothing. As I said, the John Adams parental line, the one he gets his name from, had lived in America and England for at least 500 years and 12 generations John Adams was born.

Therefore until you can - they are all Welsh...

Since you seem to be claiming that unknown ancestry is as good as Welsh, I'll play your game:

J. Adams: 13/16ths Dutch

S. Adams: 7/8ths Dutch

J.Q. Adams: 27/32nds Dutch

Madison: 25/32nds French (there is actually some evidence that says he was 1/4 French, not proven, but more evidence that there is that he is Welsh)

Monroe: completely Scottish (since his only known sncestry is Scottish)

And the facts are that Americans of unknown ancestry at the time were more likely to Dutch, French, Scottish than Welsh. Therefore my statements about them are more likely to be true than your Welsh claim.

And besides, I quote your Wikipedia with my Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_with_Welsh_ancestry

It says they're all Welsh, so I'll take it's word over yours any day...

Sam Adams isn't on that list

BTW, read these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Americans#Political_figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_Americans#Government_and_Military

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scots-Irish_Americans#Politics.2Fhistory

Out of the 8 men you specify as Welsh-American, only Lincoln and Madison aren't listed on one of those 3 lists.

Also here is one of the people listed as Welsh-American on the wiki page:

Tom Cruise (born 1962) high-level film star

Using your own links:

"ab Americo Inventore ...quasi Americi terram sive Americam (from Amerigo the discoverer ...as if it were the land of Americus, thus America)."

...Americo could just as well be Amerike/Ap Meurig etc...

(cts)

"There is a fourth quarter of the world which Amerigo Vespucci has discovered and which for this reason we can call 'America' or the land of Americo. […] We do not see why the name of the man of genius, Amerigo, who has discovered them, should not be given to these lands, as Europe and Asia have adopted the names of women."

The reason Waldseemüller later tried to change the name was not because he discovered that he had the named it after the wrong person, but because he dicovered that Vespucci had little to with the discovering of America.

* Amerike funded the earlier voyages of Bristol sailors to Newfoundland, beginning in 1479.
* In 1955, a letter was found in Spanish archives confirming the discoveries of Bristol sailors in Newfoundland before Columbus.

WhyTF would there be any Spanish record of this? First of all, how would they have known, and second, why would they keep a record that the first voyage to the Americas wasn't under the Spanish flag?

* Documents in Westminster Abbey indicate that Columbus knew of the Bristolmen's discoveries.

WhyTF would the English have any record of what Italian working for Spain knew?

* Derivation of "America" from Amerike, the sponsor of the discovery of Newfoundland is etymologically easier than from "Amerigo Vespucci," the map-maker.

"America" sounds like it could be a corruption of "Amerike," but there is doesn't appear to be any other connection. "America" is the feminine Latin form of "Amerigo." I think "feminine Latin form" provides a closer connection than than "corruption of" especially when there are only 10 years between Cabot's voyage and the making of Waldseemüller's map for the corruption to take place.

* Two extant versions of the Amerike family's coats of arms include stripes and one, stars and stripes; the older, horizontal, red stripes, and the latter, vertical, blue stripes with a band of stars.

The tradition is it is derived from the Washington family's coat of arms. It does seem more likely to me

Amerike's coat of arms:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/102/252246553_879ee4798e.jpg?v=0

Washington's:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/COA_George_Washington.svg

[MikeH]

It's scraping the bottom of the barrel a bit if founding America is the best claim to fame the Welsh have!

[MikeH]

BTW Will9 you can't just dismiss historical evidence/records by saying:

"Why would they have that?"

They did, they've been found and recorded. Of course people kept records of what other countries were doing, these were countries that traded internationally, traded diplomats, had family ties across nations through royalty, had spy networks and wars. It's not at all hard to believe.

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Yep, those Welsh girls just ain't as easy as the girls from Denmark...

now that's just not true.

[Theben]

Originally posted by MikeH
They did, they've been found and recorded. Of course people kept records of what other countries were doing, these were countries that traded internationally, traded diplomats, had family ties across nations through royalty, had spy networks and wars. It's not at all hard to believe.

It's not proof either. Again, the Vespucci account is the more plausible of the two.

[Felch]

Originally posted by MikeH
BTW Will9 you can't just dismiss historical evidence/records by saying:

"Why would they have that?"

You can certainly question them on that basis.

It's fair to assume that people will act in their own interest. It's also fair to assume that a great deal of what we believe to be true is a heaping pile of lies and more lies. It's therefore, always good to be skeptical.

Here's my question:

Why would Americans, who while diverse in their roots, are still tightly bound to Britain, claim that their country was named for an Italian and not a Welshie? Wouldn't you think our bias would tend more towards the motherland?