The Communist Manifesto

[Space05us]

I'm drinking, and reading the Communist Manifesto for the first time.

... The bourgeoisie has subjected the country to the rule of the towns. It has created enormous cities, has greatly increased the urban population as compared with the rural, and has thus rescued a considerable part of the population from the idiocy of rural life. ...

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm

I'm about halfway through the first chapter, so far what I have read is all good praise for capitalism. When does it get to the "starve your own people in order to compel them to bend to your will" part? I thought Communists hated Capitalism.

[Space05us]

... there is too much civilisation, too much means of subsistence, too much industry, too much commerce. ...

... as the repulsiveness of the work increases, the wage decreases. ...

Dude clearly never worked wastewater management. They rob the ****ing bank.

[Space05us]

As I read more of this I am lead to ask how relevant is The Communist Manifesto to the modern Communist. And what does the modern Commnuist have in common with the Communist from the 19th century, the man that feared education and constant change? Fear of the fight to survive.

... The lower middle class, the small manufacturer, the shopkeeper, the artisan, the peasant, all these fight against the bourgeoisie, to save from extinction their existence as fractions of the middle class. They are therefore not revolutionary, but conservative. Nay more, they are reactionary, for they try to roll back the wheel of history. ....

I don't know that I can continue to read this until someone gives a good answer to my question. It may have made sense at the time, when things were changing and people were afraid of that change, but now, when things are always changing and that is a fact of life, this document seems sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo irrelevant.



Finished the first chapter. All I can imagine is that it made sense back in the day. In modern times though...


I will continue to read it as I drink more. So like, in a few days I will read chapter 2.

[LotC]

I think you're on the right track. From what I understand, if you keep drinking everything makes sense. If you want to go the extra mile and make sense of EVERYTHING, smoke a little pot when you have a good buzz on.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Space05us


I will continue to read it as I drink more. So like, in a few days I will read chapter 2.

(slaps Space's hand)

Bad boy! I'm writing you a ticket for drinking and reading.

[Victor Galis]

Well, IIRC he starts with a history lesson as he sees it.

In his view the burgeois were necessary to emerge from feudalism into the "modern" era. Obviously this would create some discontent reactionaries (these aren't commies). Once that transformation runs its course the commies come in and lead the next revolution into the future (as opposed to the people who were unhappy and wanted to go into the past). I forget the details, it's been awhile since I read it and Marx's prose is well...

[Agathon]

... The lower middle class, the small manufacturer, the shopkeeper, the artisan, the peasant, all these fight against the bourgeoisie, to save from extinction their existence as fractions of the middle class. They are therefore not revolutionary, but conservative. Nay more, they are reactionary, for they try to roll back the wheel of history. ....

These are the people who protest against Wal Mart.

[Ecthy]

Ah, the petty bourgeoisie, nothing to gain but everything to lose, the driving force of fascism...

...all in a good marxist-leninist sense of course

[Winston]

I think one of the most important questions one needs to ask in this context is, "When did Coventry City last win the FA Cup?"

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Space05us
As I read more of this I am lead to ask how relevant is The Communist Manifesto to the modern Communist. And what does the modern Commnuist have in common with the Communist from the 19th century, the man that feared education and constant change?

As I'd unterstand it they aren't against education, but against education in a capitalist society which is for them just a tool for exploitation. As for change probably depends what kind of change.

How relevant it is today for communists - dunno. I guess it depends if you're a classical communists or one of the so-called reform commies that emerged in Western Europe and later elsewhere esp. in Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet block, but the orthodox commies probably would say these aren't real commies anymore.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by BeBro

As I'd unterstand it they aren't against education, but against education in a capitalist society which is for them just a tool for exploitation. As for change probably depends what kind of change.

IIRC, they're for education. The bourgeoisie furnish the proles with education in order to prevail against the bourgeoisie in other countries and the aristocracy. In doing so it creates the seeds of its destruction. Or something.

[BeBMan]

Hmmm. Could be

Where's Che when you need him

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by BeBro

Where's Che when you need him

Attending a Socialist Convention!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by BeBro
Hmmm. Could be

Where's Che when you need him

Power went out (FPL has such great service ) and I've been attending to monetary matters (my severance is not in my bank account ).

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Space05us
As I read more of this I am lead to ask how relevant is The Communist Manifesto to the modern Communist. And what does the modern Commnuist have in common with the Communist from the 19th century, the man that feared education and constant change? Fear of the fight to survive.

... The lower middle class, the small manufacturer, the shopkeeper, the artisan, the peasant, all these fight against the bourgeoisie, to save from extinction their existence as fractions of the middle class. They are therefore not revolutionary, but conservative. Nay more, they are reactionary, for they try to roll back the wheel of history. ....

I'm not sure what your comment means, but this is how I think that part of the Manifesto is relevent today. City people believe more in change than the country people. This is the same in every country. People who like to live in the country prefer traditional ways generally. What Marx is saying is that change is good, and therefore capitalism is good, but only change oriented capitalism as it will lead to communism.

What it breaks down to today is the city liberals against the country, suburb/exurb conservatives, and Texans. I think he was right on the money about the reactionaries.