21% of American atheists don't know what "atheist" means

[Rufus T. Firefly]

On the one hand, people are idiots.

On the other hand, religious conservatives -- who tend to dominate American public discourse on religion -- have repeatedly conflated their own peculiar brand of myths, rituals, and and creative textual interpretation with "believing in God," so it should be no surprise that other Americans might conflate/confuse "atheistic" and "areligious."

On the third hand (or first foot, or whatever), "personal God" is a pretty ambiguous category, but I would guess that a self-described atheist using such a category would not mean the same thing a Christian does (i.e., Jehovah, Jesus-is-my-personal-savior, etc.). A better guess would be that the phrase was interpreted to mean a belief in the potential immanent divinity of one's self -- a belief consistent with Buddhism, which is also technically atheist.

The key question, I suppose, is whether a belief in the divine is the same as a belief in a deity. Few theists would argue that they are the same, so why should it be puzzling to find atheists who nevertheless entertain a concept of the divine?

[DinoDoc]

How many hands do you have, Rufus?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

A bunch. But then, I'm a Hindu deity.

[Lancer]

If you have a bunch, you're a banana.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Lancer
Anyone that needs proof of God has a tough path ahead.

Now, now Lancer, don't make assumptions...you're treading a dangerous path there

[Elok]

For crying out loud, read the actual results, people. It's right there: "NET Believe in God." Not "NET Believe in Spirituality of Some Sort" or "NET Not Strict Materialists." Of course that includes Spinoza-type pantheism, but if that belief includes some sort of fuzzy auto-theism, what isn't a belief in God? These poll results are based on self-reporting, BTW.

And I didn't mean this as a "slander" on anyone, just an amusing head-scratcher. Since, y'know, atheists BY DEFINITION do not believe in God.

[Sandman]

Maybe they're cultural atheists.

[BeBMan]

Atheism?

Ozzy in 3...2...1...

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Elok
For crying out loud, read the actual results, people. It's right there: "NET Believe in God." Not "NET Believe in Spirituality of Some Sort" or "NET Not Strict Materialists." Of course that includes Spinoza-type pantheism, but if that belief includes some sort of fuzzy auto-theism, what isn't a belief in God? These poll results are based on self-reporting, BTW.

Um, no.

Let's take the biggie: 12% report a belief in an "impersonal force." Did they self-report a belief in God? No. Is an "impersonal force" the same thing as God? Not according to most religious leaders, no.

So why the hell is the survey counting belief in an "impersonal force" as belief in God? Good question. Pity it wasn't answered.

Ironically, based just on what you posted, it sounds like either "NET Believe in Spirituality of Some Sort" or "NET Not Strict Materialists" would actually be a more honest label, and more reasonable interpretation of the data.

[onodera]

I'm more amused by the non-100% figures for belief in God among the religious groups. Or did they count "I attend the church for social benefits" people as belonging to a religion?

[Whaleboy]

For something like this I think it's important to say that when you compare atheism to religion you're not comparing like with like. Atheism, unlike religion which is a whole system of thought, custom and dogma, is merely a statement that there is no god; a conclusion one can reach (quite easily I might add) based on evidence.

What you build on top of that conclusion, say, secular humanism for example, may follow naturally but it is not a necessary consequence of atheism; hence perhaps the confusion. Indeed, you could quite happily be a secular humanist but still privately believe in a creator (perhaps in the manner of Douglas Adams' "Artificial God" idea), but mistakenly term yourself an atheist. You could have religious impulses but not be comfortable about categorising them into a given religion. You could just be an agnostic (a position I find even less fathomable than theism). You could just get a giddy little thrill out of describing yourself as a non-conformist atheist in a deeply religious society.

Either way, it doesn't surprise me that a good number of people who think they agree with a technical philosophical term in fact don't. I'm surprised the number isn't higher.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Not really.

Unless this 'Force' being referred to is actually something like gravity or electromagnetism.

Obviously, they are Jedi.

[Impaler[WrG]]

'Karma' would be a good example of an 'impersonal force' that one might believe in (millions do) that would lead you to that answer on the survey. Karma (to the best of my understanding) is believed to be a universal force of nature like gravity or electromagnetism, its simply how the universe works rather then something being imposed on the universe by a god.

[Elok]

Rufus, ask one of our philosogeeks to explain Spinoza. His vision of God is stupid and pointless to me, but IIRC he still called it a God. There seems to be a whole movement in philosophy circles and liberal religious movements to turn God into some hippy-dippy cosmic force or thought process. Not to mention Hinduism; the standard Hindu conception of God is definitely a deity, but not personal after the western fashion.

And again, this poll is based on self-identification; they ask, "what are you?" and write down what you say, regardless of dogmatic contradictions. Hence not all Catholics in that poll claimed to believe in God. The questions about personal deity, impersonal force or other were posed to all people, hence this chart:



Note that at least a few people of all religions identified their deity as some sort of cosmic blob.

[Kidlicious]

Re: 21% of American atheists don't know what "atheist" means

Originally posted by Elok

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

This caught my eye when it was mentioned in the Religion section of todays WaPo. At first I thought it was a joke or taken out of context, but on closer inspection...no. 21% of atheists in this study have some sort of belief in God. Of those, six percent believe in a "personal God," i.e. something like Jehovah. So, um, discuss, I guess.

100% of religionists believe in God.