Bush Lied...

[Dinner]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
I'd like to take this moment to point out that Oerdin has calmly acknowledged that he was wrong about something.

I do all the time. It's just that people only remember the arguments.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Uh, yeah.

So they signed the document? Where?

Wrong. If you read nothing else, read 1441, at least once.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 says nothing about no fly zones and does not mandate them.

All it speaks of is WMD. Please. Read the resolution you are citing.

Btw, the Security Council Resolution, the US, France and Britain used to justify no fly zones (which no one else did) was 688.

The Iraqi military were surrendering in numbers that overwhelmed us. Taking them into what amounted to protective custody, was a staggering task. Actually, probably the most staggering task of the whole operation.

You do realize that the Iraqi military in this war was defeated very, very early on, right? You DO realize we aren't fighting the Iraqi military, right?!

No only do you need to read history, but you need to be aware what is currently going on!

[SlowwHand]

SECURITY COUNCIL HOLDS IRAQ IN ‘MATERIAL BREACH’ OF DISARMAMENT ...By the unanimous adoption of resolution 1441 (2002), the Council ... He said, “This is a time of trial -– for Iraq, for the United Nations and for the world ...

https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2002/SC7564.doc.htm

UN Security Council Resolution 1441On November 8, 2002, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 1441. All fifteen members of the Security Council agreed to give Iraq a final ...

https://www.state.gov/p/io/rls/fs/2003/17926.htm

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 - Wikipedia, the ...United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 is a resolution by the UN Security Council, passed unanimously on November 8, 2002, offering Iraq "a final ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_ Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1441





You still need to learn to not try and lecture me.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Please show me where that indicates that the United Nations authorized or endorsed the no-fly zones? Those are all dealing with WMDs, as I've pointed out.

You need some reading comprehension, boy.

[DinoDoc]

Something for you Sloww: http://www.asil.org/insights/insigh92.htm

1441 didn't deal with anything like what you are alleging. The other arguements are what the US government argued sepperate from thr UN.

Since we're also going to the UN as justification for the use of force, the site also has another article covering a similar situation: http://www.asil.org/insights/insigh30.htm

[PLATO]

Wow! deja vu!

This is great...everyone please keep making the same arguments over and over that you have made for the last 5 years!

Here is the real facts according to PLATO:
1.) Saddam Bad
2.) Bush Stupid
3.) "Aftermath? Oh..yeah. Ummm...right" Total f*cking idiot Rumsfeld.
4.) "Iran? Oh yeah. Ummm..right" All the idiots at Dept of State (except you Rufus )
5.) Finally...lest we all forget. Nearly every intelligence agency from every country was saying that WMD from Saddam was a threat. It is highly unlikely, for example, that Bush was ordering Russian intelligence "cooked".

The problem lies with #2 initially and the quagmire is firmly at the feet of #3.

Carry on please!

[DaShi]

Don't forget:

6) Since nearly every country had intelligence that WMDs from Saddam was a threat, the war had overwhelming support from the UN and the rest of the world.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by DaShi
Don't forget:

6) Since nearly every country had intelligence that WMDs from Saddam was a threat, the war had overwhelming support from the UN and the rest of the world.

Yes Dashi, There is always room for a stupid comment. You seem more and more likely these days to provide them.

Obviously having the intelligence did not lead everyone to the solution that Bush reached (see #2 in my initial post I might add). However, If you will look at the number of countries that were part of the original coalition, you will see that a large part of the world was onboard. Certainly you know as well that the UNSC is a very small group and that the permanent members must all agree.

Without a doubt the war was contintious even among the countries that initially supported it (and a large number did despite France's heavy lobbying to the contrary), but to sarcastically imply that what I said was inaccurate shows an abundance of incompetence and ignorance.

However...please carry on! This thread is great comic relief and the deja vu of it is quite amusing. You have certainly added to the show!

[DaShi]

Why the need for insults? Can't you discuss things pleasantly? Talking to you always feels like talking to a child, you always respond in a such a way.

Please show me the intelligence of the original coalition you speak of. "Nearly every intelligence agency from every country" sounds like a lot of support that has gone ignored in these discussions. Could you please provide some of it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

In addition that ignores that in a lot of intelligence communities there was contrary information and unlike in the US, it wasn't suppressed by the administrations that were in power at the time.

[DaShi]

No, that would mean that PLATO was talking out his ass! With his witty retorts and assertive claims, how could he be deceiving us?

[SlowwHand]

Imran, I give up. Arguing with someone who doesn't even read, nor even acknowldeges the source, is a lost cause.
The first ****ing reference is from the U.N.
Keep laboring along in ignorance. It really makes no difference to me.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by PLATO
4.) "Iran? Oh yeah. Ummm..right" All the idiots at Dept of State (except you Rufus )

While I'm always happy to be excluded from group of idiots, I'm having trouble figuring out what about Iran you're blaming on the State Department. We haven't had diplomatic relations with Iran in over 25 years (which is one of the reasons we have so little leverage with them); they're not a State Dept problem and there's precious little State can do about them. If anything, our big "oops" about Iran is something else that can be laid at the doorstep of the intelligence community.

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Berzerker

Lying a nation into war aint tellin the Mrs she aint fat.

Here's how the lie worked... Imagine a football game and you're watching the highlight reel without knowing who won. The highlights only show the good plays by the losing team and the bad plays from the winning team. You walk away thinking the losing team won...

I wasn't serious...

[Arrian]

I don't remember Bush saying we were going to Iraq. WMD or not, as you view WMD, existed.

You must be joking. It was CLEAR AS DAY at the time. We were going in no matter what, and it was simply a matter of constructing a plausible casus belli.

-Arrian