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  • Originally posted by Elok
    I hate having to risk an asthma attack every time I walk by some asswad lighting up.
    Oh poor little dearie throws a fit when somebody in a public space lights a cigarette?

    John Brown did nothing wrong.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mr Snuggles


      You are, quite clearly. You made a rip at my punctuation, then refused to support it. Instead you have now repeatedly made an issue out of a stylistic choice of using "off of" because you clearly cannot find any punctuation issues with the quote in question.
      You make an awful lot of assumptions in such a small space, it would be a waste of my time to list them.

      Your use of the vile and redundant 'off of' is at best 'sl. disp.', to quote one quite reputable dictionary.

      At worst it is an example of the mangled prose you wilfully inflict on an innocent world.


      It is not a stylistic choice- it's a grammatical error.


      Off does not require 'of' . Perhaps you're unfamiliar with English prepositional idioms and their usage. Doubtless one of the Francophone Canadians could help improve your English.

      I'm sure you knew that and I'm sure you also knew that while it's not valid in the Queen's English, it's valid and quite common in American/Canadian English.
      You're conferring validity on common incorrect usage.


      All kinds of grammatically incorrect devices are regularly used in written and spoken Canadian and British English.

      Usage doesn't make them valid when a better alternative already exists.

      I hope you take great pride in your excessive snobbery
      I suppose I should expect that someone who doesn't understand when he's misusing 'off' and 'of' should fail to fully comprehend what snobbery is and entails.

      I'd just like you not to offend against English grammar ona regular basis.


      because that's all you've really got in life
      Gosh, yes. No home, no job, no shoes, no partner, no pets- just me and my 'excessive' snobbery!



      A propos of this supposed 'excessive snobbery', feel free to enlighten the world with what you feel should be the correct degree of snobbery to be exhibited...

      You are an immense, condescending douchebag about the most trivial of subjects.
      You have quite a limited vocabulary when it comes to insults.


      Have you ever tried reading books ?



      Other than say, Microserf Training Manuals or 'The Collected Colonoscopy Results of Chairman Bill'.
      Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

      ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

      Comment


      • Originally posted by molly bloom
        You make an awful lot of assumptions in such a small space, it would be a waste of my time to list them.
        Comma splice.

        wilfully
        Not a word.

        I suppose I should expect that someone who doesn't understand when he's misusing 'off' and 'of' should fail to fully comprehend what snobbery is and entails.
        Split infinitive.

        ona
        Not a word.
        Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
        "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

        Comment


        • Enough with the personal insults folks...
          Keep on Civin'
          RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

          Comment


          • Originally posted by molly bloom
            You make an awful lot of assumptions in such a small space, it would be a waste of my time to list them.
            So stop posting on this site, ************************. (Censored to appease Ming)

            "off of" is valid in American and Canadian English. It is not valid in British English. This may surprise you, but languages evolve over time and what was "incorrect" four hundred years ago and in Britain today becomes correct over time.

            It is a complex preposition in American and Canadian English. You'll note its use dates back to at least one Mark Twain in American English. Not too long ago, you were telling us about how Shakespeare has shaped the English language and now you're showing both your ignorance and your arrogance in pretending that Mark Twain did not do the same for American English. Get over yourself.

            You're not as smart as you think you are, and some of us know that.
            Last edited by Asher; July 8, 2008, 13:02.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Lorizael

              Various alleged grammatical errors...
              Comma splices seem to be something that excites North Americans greatly- more so than Brits. I put it down to Strunk's influence.

              You'll find them in all the best books and used by all the best writers.

              'Wilfully' is indeed a word as a casual perusal of any dictionary will inform you.

              The supposedly ungrammatical split infinitive is nothing of the sort- I direct you to 'Fowler's Modern Usage' and many other such guides for further information on the subject.



              "off of" is valid in American and Canadian English.
              Prove it.


              This may surprise you, but languages evolve over time and what was "incorrect" four hundred years ago and in Britain today becomes correct over time.
              They do ?

              It does ?


              Imagine!



              You'll note its use dates back to at least one Mark Twain in American English.
              Really ?

              Cite the relevant usage and context please.

              I could quote London slang that Dickens used in his novels, but that wouldn't mean it was grammatically correct Standard English.

              you were telling us about how Shakespeare has shaped the English language and now you're showing both your ignorance and your arrogance in pretending that Mark Twain did not do the same for American English.
              I'm doing nothing of the sort, given that it was you that just brought up Mark Twain. Had a brainfart ?


              I haven't mentioned Harriet Beecher Stowe or H. L. Mencken or the King James Bible. They all had an influence on American English too.

              In any case, you're meant to be Canadian aren't you ?

              You're not as smart as you think you are, and some of us know that.
              How true, how perceptive.


              I am crushed by the searing power of your All-Seeing-Eye !
              Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

              ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

              Comment


              • Originally posted by molly bloom
                Prove it.


                Really ?

                Cite the relevant usage and context please.

                I could quote London slang that Dickens used in his novels, but that wouldn't mean it was grammatically correct Standard English.
                By "Standard English" do you mean "British English"? I think it is patently clear that you are unaware that there are different norms of English around the world. Or perhaps you are aware, and you just think British English is superior and therefore is the Standard?

                The usage by Mark Twain is as follows:
                Tom said he slipped Jim's hat off of his head and hung it on a limb...

                I'm sure you can figure out which book that is from.

                "An Introduction to American English" by Gunnel Tottie, page 172, explains the difference between British and American usage:
                American English occasionally uses a complex preposition where British English has a simple one, as in off of instead of plain off.


                I'm doing nothing of the sort, given that it was you that just brought up Mark Twain. Had a brainfart ?
                If you don't know it, then to say you are ignorant is correct...

                Edit: And this has always bothered me: for someone who so rigidly adheres to British English, why on Earth do you use French spacing?
                Last edited by Asher; July 8, 2008, 13:12.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mr Snuggles

                  By "Standard English" do you mean "British English"?
                  No, Standard English.

                  I'm sure you can figure out which book that is from.
                  Is it a book written by Mark Twain, featuring Tom Sawyer ?

                  I await enlightenment with eager glee.

                  "An Introduction to American English" by Gunnel Tottie, page 172, explains the difference between British and American usage:
                  That's very nice dearie. Does it say whether or not the usage is slang or standard ?

                  If you don't know it, then to say you are ignorant is correct...
                  I haven't committed the complete works of Mark Twain to memory, alas.

                  I'd be shocked and stunned if you had.

                  If you possessed a copy of 'The Adventures of Tom Sawyer' I'd be quite pleasantly surprised.

                  Is it possible you're using an internet source for your information ?


                  If so- and I say this with hope in my heart- don't you think you should share the relevant site with us all ?

                  If not, then just turn to the relevant chapter and page and give me the details.
                  Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

                  ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by molly bloom
                    Comma splices seem to be something that excites North Americans greatly- more so than Brits. I put it down to Strunk's influence.

                    You'll find them in all the best books and used by all the best writers.
                    Regardless, it's an error and usage doesn't make it valid when a better alternative already exists - the semicolon.


                    'Wilfully' is indeed a word as a casual perusal of any dictionary will inform you.
                    You're absolutely correct. My bad.

                    The supposedly ungrammatical split infinitive is nothing of the sort- I direct you to 'Fowler's Modern Usage' and many other such guides for further information on the subject.
                    *blink blink* Please see the hypocrisy.
                    Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                    "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by molly bloom
                      No, Standard English.
                      Can you link me to the Standard English grammar specifications? Because the last I checked:
                      There are no set rules or vocabulary for any putative "Standard English" because, unlike languages such as French, Italian, Spanish, Dutch or Danish, English does not have a governing body (see Académie française, Accademia della Crusca, Asociación de Academias de la Lengua Española, Nederlandse Taalunie, Dansk Sprognævn) to establish usage.


                      So it seems to me that since "off of" is incredibly popular in the most heavily populated English countries, it is part of Standard English, where the "Standard" is slightly different depending on if you're referring to British English or American English. Canada uses a hybrid of both.

                      Is it a book written by Mark Twain, featuring Tom Sawyer ?

                      I await enlightenment with eager glee.
                      Yes. Go you.

                      That's very nice dearie. Does it say whether or not the usage is slang or standard ?
                      How do you define standard? If the Columbia guide says it is valid, I suppose that's as close as you're going to get to a "standard" in American English.

                      If you possessed a copy of 'The Adventures of Tom Sawyer' I'd be quite pleasantly surprised.

                      Is it possible you're using an internet source for your information ?


                      If so- and I say this with hope in my heart- don't you think you should share the relevant site with us all ?

                      If not, then just turn to the relevant chapter and page and give me the details.
                      Huckleberry Fin, Chapter II, page 6. It is also used on pages 8, 9, 24, 31, 47, 50, 52, 56, 74, 93, 94, etc.

                      I don't even get why you're continuing to fight this. "Off of" is a complex preposition that is both standard and pervasive in American English, and its usage can be traced back to one of the most famous of American writers.

                      I think this must be genuinely shocking to you to learn that not every country in the world speaks the Queen's English. Consider yourself educated by a lowly computer science geek.

                      And please answer this as I have asked you this repeatedly: As someone who so rigidly adheres to British English, why do you use French spacing? It strikes me as a bit stupid for someone who is so incredibly anal about perfect British grammar and English to be using French spacing.
                      Last edited by Asher; July 8, 2008, 13:46.
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                      Comment


                      • More on your *****ing about "Standard English":
                        According to Peter Trudgill, "Standard English is that set of grammatical and lexical forms which is typically used in speech and writing by educated native speakers. It includes the use of colloquial and slang vocabulary, as well as swear words and taboo expressions." This definition is also often used by American linguists.


                        It seems to me that even your argument that "off of" is slang and therefore not "Standard English" is ignorant and incorrect. I didn't think it was possible, but you continue to be wrong about every subject you speak of -- all while retaining that cool, trademark arrogance and condescending culturally-suave attitude. It is people like you that added the colloquial definition of "tool' that applies to people.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Lorizael


                          Regardless, it's an error and usage doesn't make it valid when a better alternative already exists - the semicolon.
                          I refer you to several articles detailing the difference in approach to comma splices in American and British English.

                          This is not the same as the use of 'off of' as if it were Standard English. Which it ain't.

                          Please see the hypocrisy.
                          ? Split infinitives (like prepositions ending sentences) aren't grammatically incorrect or slang.

                          So it seems to me that since "off of" is incredibly popular in the most heavily populated English countries, it is part of Standard English,
                          Do you understand the difference between Standard English and slang ?

                          If you don't know it, then to say you are ignorant is correct...



                          Yes. Go you.
                          You mean you're not going to tell me the title ? Darn.

                          Off of" is a complex preposition that is both standard and pervasive in American English, and its usage can be traced back to one of the most famous of American writers.
                          Perhaps I'll put this down to you not reading that many works of fiction.

                          The character using 'off of' is not using Standard English- he wasn't even recounting the story in what would have been Standard American English, but was using a dialect of American English

                          If you bother reading the chapter (or page- or paragraph) you'll see that he uses a variety of non-Standard American English usages.

                          I don't imagine you have ever read it, but why not acquaint yourself with it ?

                          Of course you imagine that 'warn't' would pass muster in American schools and colleges...


                          ...along with 'most stupidest'.


                          Consider yourself educated by a lowly computer science geek.
                          While I'm glad you have an awareness of your place in the world you are in the other respect much mistaken.

                          Did you know that Ms. Gunnel Tottie is also mistaken in referring to American English when she means the varieties spoken and written in all of North America and the Caribbean ?


                          I'm still not sure why a Canadian thinks that an American writer's use of dialect forms in a novel has anything to do with Standard Canadian English usage....



                          When we was ten foot off Tom whispered to me, and wanted to tie Jim to the tree for fun. But I said no; he might wake and make a disturbance, and then they'd find out I warn't in.
                          Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

                          ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by molly bloom
                            Do you understand the difference between Standard English and slang ?
                            Do you? Man, you are a such a ****ing tool.

                            According to Peter Trudgill, "Standard English is that set of grammatical and lexical forms which is typically used in speech and writing by educated native speakers. It includes the use of colloquial and slang vocabulary, as well as swear words and taboo expressions." This definition is also often used by American linguists.


                            You're not even reading or comprehending any points that I am making. If all you're going to do is spam this thread with French-spaced bull****, then you can talk to yourself.

                            I've dismantled you on every topic in this thread you've squirmed to in a desperate attempt to avoid your original claim -- that a sentence I used had incorrect punctuation. You never did back that up, and in the process of squirming you were proven wrong on a host of other issues. It's time for you to give up the ghost and concede that you don't know as much as you pretend to.

                            I'm still not sure why a Canadian thinks that an American writer's use of dialect forms in a novel has anything to do with Standard Canadian English usage....

                            That's because you don't know that I am both American and Canadian and have lived in both countries. It's also because you didn't read what I said earlier when I pointed out that Canada uses a hybrid of British and American English. More importantly, it means you are wrong yet again.
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                            Comment


                            • Texas is pushing for legislation to allow carrying unconcealed handguns. As of past September, a person can carry in their vehicle while travelling.
                              Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                              "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                              He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                              Comment


                              • Sloww, this thread isn't about gun control anymore. This thread is about demonstrating Molly Bloom to be a fraud.
                                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                                Comment

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