Nietzsche and the meaning of life

[CrONoS]

Do I am teh only real Nietzschean here?

Since I believe in objective morality; which is teh morality that I have defined, and that I will impose to others, which is based on sensual, materialistic and physical needs. Which is the healthy expression of my instinct, so my will to power!

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Maniac
Weird. In real life I've only ever come across three people who think life has no inherent meaning and are not just victims of their genetically determined desires. (And one of those three people is a libertarian *******.)

Yet here there are four people who say life has no inherent meaning. Am I just bad at finding likeminded people, or does Civ attract moral perspectivists?

I don't often ask this question to people, but when the **** hits the fan and I'm in a raving mad booze night till the morning light I do touch on those subjects. So far nobody has had a convincing opinion on life having a meaning...

In normal conversation people don't really think deeply on the subject so it's generally pointless asking them straight away.

The whole idea of life having a meaning seems so grotesque to me. People who think our lives are so important usually think our lives are important based on no arguments at all. There is a plan for example . Okay on what basis can we say that? On our gut feeling, our intuition, our genetic disposition to religious feelings (and this can be traced in the brain!)???
They can't accept that we are simply here, living etc. There doesn't need to be a meaning to it all. And really, that's the simplest and most logical opinion of 'em all

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
I couldn't disagree with GePap more than I do.
"A human social artifact"? Based on what? Just because humans are all so good naturally?

He didn't claim humans are all so good naturally. And of course morality is socially construed. Some actions are perceived as good while in other cultures they are not. Some cultures put more emphasis on some aspects of morality, while they ignore other aspects. Then again, other cultures will emphasize their own important points.

You just don't know what he means with a social construct. Morality is by definition defined and experienced by humans in their various contexts. Tss.

Well, we're not all good, for one thing. I believe in a Plan. I don't believe that totally random event led us all from different starting points, taking different paths in the road, to end up here, for one example.

You're entitled to you opinion. Mine is different, is all I'm saying.

Well your opinion is just because. You were probably raised to be like you are. There's a 'plan', however vague that might be. You and a gazillion other people have invented their 'plan', and while they are all based on the same feelings, they are all different. So who's right then eh? Surely if there's a plan (of God) it has to be the same thing everywhere in the world, which of course it isn't.

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by Traianvs
They can't accept that we are simply here, living etc. There doesn't need to be a meaning to it all. And really, that's the simplest and most logical opinion of 'em all

And what is really astounding; The lack of belief in a plan, or in divine harmony, or anything like that seems the expression of a society paralyzed by her own lack of faith in themselves, in the value that have been inherited from his roots.

Maybe there is no goal in life(I say maybe, because I don't believe that); but if the majority of people in a society do think that, the there is no higher universal and transcendent goal, this society, will disappear really soon by bigotry, egoism, lust, etc...

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by CrONoS


And what is really astounding; The lack of belief in a plan, or in divine harmony, or anything like that seems the expression of a society paralyzed by her own lack of faith in themselves, in the value that have been inherited from his roots.

Maybe there is no goal in life(I say maybe, because I don't believe that); but if the majority of people in a society do think that, the there is no higher universal and transcendent goal, this society, will disappear really soon by bigotry, egoism, lust, etc...

Oh god the argument that if there is no 'goal' in life there can only be egoism, hatred, evil etc. pops up again.

Humans can be rational beings, if checked in a safe environment. a Humanist has pretty much the same feelings towards mankind than the strong catholic, except for the lack of belief in a greater 'being'.

I'm also a bit doubtful on the 'majority of people'. You know as well as we all do that our religious views and our transcendental views are based much upon what we were taught as kids, and what happens in our immediate environment. Peer pressure still applies to this day. Nevertheless there is a strong tendency towards a more rational approach. Luckily youngsters don't just swallow whatever their elders tell them. Now they start forming their own opinions.

And based on my (and others') opinion and experiences, there's is nearly nobody believing in a higher God or the like. I'm talking about Belgians at university of course, so that might not be representative but still... People here have liberated themselves from the old straitjacket of religious regulation and thought control

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by Traianvs


Oh god the argument that if there is no 'goal' in life there can only be egoism, hatred, evil etc. pops up again.

Edited... I 'll rephrase it

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by CrONoS

Edited... I 'll rephrase it

God that I would like to wrote correctly in english.

ok.

Replace God, by gods, ideologies, the highest value that a society, collectively, believe in.

So when they lose their god(gods), their ideology, they're faith in themselves. (I would called it the glue that stick the individuals together). This society will slowly decay... into yeah, immorality.

Why? Because what is immorality, it's mainly the action that could destroy the value that were believe in.

Is moral absolute? Morality is universally relative, but in the context of a society, because it's absolute, in his context, immorality are the action or thought that endanger their very existence.

I said transcendence because it's the word that represent the best the idea that I wanted to say. I could have said; the "collective ideal" that has united the individuals. But their higher goals are not rationally thinking. They emerged from their deep "collective unconscious". They become attracted to a specific goal, gods, because for a reason or another, the psyche of this society, are set in a certain pattern.

[McCrea]

/dang it didn't attach!/

[McCrea]

Well, Chronos, in order to simply meet like-minded people (rather than forming a deep philosophysical relationship), I would start with something simple before breeching the more obfuscated matters.

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by Traianvs
People here have liberated themselves from the old straitjacket of religious regulation and thought control

My experience of university students are that, they think of themselves a little too highly.

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by McCrea
Well, Chronos, in order to simply meet like-minded people (rather than forming a deep philosophysical relationship), I would start with something simple before breeching the more obfuscated matters.

So the image say that the primordial psychological energy is sexual? While Nietzsche maintain that it was a will to power.

I don't know what to think about it. My reading of psychology are from old author (Adler, Freud and Jung) Adler maintaining that it was a will to power. Freud the libido was sexual and Jung, that it was an energy who took no forms;(which could take any forms)

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Traianvs
I don't often ask this question to people, but when the **** hits the fan and I'm in a raving mad booze night till the morning light I do touch on those subjects. So far nobody has had a convincing opinion on life having a meaning...

Well I wouldn't be able to give you some decent answer on my own *personal* meaning of life either. But so you've *never* met anyone in person who doesn't simply say "I don't know", "I'm not sure" or something, but has a clearly thought through opinion that life has no inherent meaning?
(that kinda sucks)

[Maniac]

Originally posted by CrONoS
God that I would like to wrote correctly in english.

ok.

Replace God, by gods, ideologies, the highest value that a society, collectively, believe in.

So when they lose their god(gods), their ideology, they're faith in themselves. (I would called it the glue that stick the individuals together). This society will slowly decay... into yeah, immorality.

...

So do you think then people should be thought for the benefit of society that there is some absolute moral, even though you know it's crap?

Anyway, I think you underestimate the average perspectivist's willingness to agree on some set of rules (what exactly those rules are can always be democratically discussed and changed) to make living together easier.

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by Maniac


So do you think then people should be thought for the benefit of society that there is some absolute moral, even though you know it's crap?

that's funny, I will respond to you by a nietzsche quotes.
Which mean; there is nothing you can do about it.

For Nietzsche the only answer was the transvaluation of all value; which in my own opinion, impossible.

Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place and cried incessantly: "I seek God! I seek God!"— As many of those who did not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he lose his way like a child? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? emigrated?— Thus they yelled and laughed. The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. "Whither is God?" he cried. "I will tell you. We have killed him—you and I! All of us are his murderers! But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? And backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning? Do we not hear nothing as yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we smell nothing as yet of the divine decomposition?—Gods, too, decompose! God is dead! God remains dead! And we have killed him! How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives,—who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?

[CrONoS]

All this thread on Nietzsche made me discover the immense impact of Nietzsche on my thought.