EU treaty of Lisbon possibly to be vetoed by Ireland

[Ecthy]

So far no confirmation by blogs or secondary sources, but the BBC reports that in yesterday's referendum a relative majority / plurality may have been reached by forces hostile to the new treaty.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7452171.stm

Early unofficial vote tallies around Ireland are indicating a strong showing for the No vote in a referendum on the European Union's Lisbon Treaty.

In Irish polls, tally counters in each constituency watch votes being sorted and make their own count, giving early indications of how a vote is going.

Broadcaster RTE reports the No vote is ahead not only in rural areas, but in five out of eight areas of Dublin too.

Ireland is the only EU country to hold a referendum on this treaty that shares about 95% of the content of the former EU constitutional treaty. For the new treaty to come into effect it nees to be adopted by all 27 EU countries, all of which but Ireland chose parliamentary ratification over a referendum after the constitutional treaty failed in two respective referenda in France and NL.

[TheStinger]

ha ha

[Ecthy]

I can't seem to form a clear opinion on the matter. On one hand, the EU is a bureaucratic monster lacking democratic legitimacy and sinking German money in favour of French agriculture and Spanish infrastructure with doubtful effects for the rest of the union or even the future of these economies. Its institutions drain personnel from a political elite that doesn't seem to care about legitimacy. Rather than adding more security integration, it's still centered on economic protectionism.

On the other hand, the current process of integration is the only available at hand to reach a higher degree of unity especially in fields like CFSP, so from a critically-rational point of view, the Lisbon treaty should be accepted despite its lack in democracy. There can always be hope for a future democratization of the EU institutions.

[TheStinger]

What I don't undesrtand is that given there is obvious need to reform the EU and it's procedures why does any treaty that does this also always have to increase the powers of the EU. They don't have to go hand in hand

[BeBMan]

So do we get our money back?

[Provost Harrison]

And usually the Irish are very pro-European...

I was in Lisbon the day before it was signed BTW. Not that interesting a fact but I did get to see all the preparations they were making at the monastery where they were signing it...

[BeBMan]

Well, if it's confirmed the EU has a prob. If people like the Lisbon thing or not the EU can't work effectively the way things are now.

[Harovan]

Thanks to one of the few free European people for stopping this.

[Felch]

Re: EU treaty of Lisbon possibly to be vetoed by Ireland

Originally posted by Ecthy
Ireland is the only EU country to hold a referendum on this treaty that shares about 95% of the content of the former EU constitutional treaty. For the new treaty to come into effect it nees to be adopted by all 27 EU countries, all of which but Ireland chose parliamentary ratification over a referendum after the constitutional treaty failed in two respective referenda in France and NL.

I know the US isn't perfect about this sort of thing (electoral college and all that) but how big do your balls have to be to ratify a treaty that your people would oppose in a referendum? Isn't that a political kiss of death?

[Asher]

WTF is this treaty?

[Riesstiu IV]

The treaty is aimed at standardizing Lesbian pornography.

[DanS]

I've heard that Lisbon is basically the defunct constitution warmed over -- 95% of the text of the original.

If so, I would vote no, if only because it's difficult to understand a document of that size and all of its implicatons.

[dannubis]

nono, raising the standard of lesbian pornography...

[dannubis]

Originally posted by DanS
I've heard that Lisbon is basically the defunct constitution warmed over -- 95% of the text of the original.

If so, I would vote no, if only because it's difficult to understand a document of that size and all of its implicatons.

Tell me, how much of the Aericans know exactely what is in their constitution and understand this and its full implications ?

Except for our apolyton lawyers of course

[C0ckney]

well you don't need to take dan s' word for it. the author of the treaty valery giscard d'estaing has himself said that it's essentially the same thing. leaders across europe have been queuing up to say how similar the lisbon treaty is to the european constitution.

i'm delighted that the irish have voted no. hopefully politicians (both national and european) will finally accept the fact that people do not like the direction the EU is being taken in. however, given recent history it is more likely they will just find another way of repackaging the same set of measures, or as it's ireland, maybe they'll just make them vote again