EU treaty of Lisbon possibly to be vetoed by Ireland

[dannubis]

Well, it's not the direction I don't like, it's the way they want to implement it that sucks.

And a lot of people think that way (on the mainland).

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by dannubis
Tell me, how much of the Aericans know exactely what is in their constitution and understand this and its full implications ?

We are required to learn out Constitution in school. It's nice and small, so it makes it very easy to do. That's the main problem with the proposed EU constitution. It's 400 freakin' pages. Who could learn that!?!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by C0ckney
i'm delighted that the irish have voted no. hopefully politicians (both national and european) will finally accept the fact that people do not like the direction the EU is being taken in. however, given recent history it is more likely they will just find another way of repackaging the same set of measures, or as it's ireland, maybe they'll just make them vote again

Why do you think that the representatives of capital would change their stripes. It's obvious they wanted to shoves this over the intent of the voters since every country but one took the decision out of the hands of the voters.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It's obvious they wanted to shoves this over the intent of the voters since every country but one took the decision out of the hands of the voters.

Care to dig out some numbers that back up a view that voters of all EU members would make the same decision like the Irish?

[DanS]

Originally posted by dannubis
Tell me, how much of the Aericans know exactely what is in their constitution and understand this and its full implications ?

Except for our apolyton lawyers of course

Thanks for demonstrating my point.

Depending on the font size, the US Constitution including amendments is about 15 pages. The prose is plain. A high school civics class should be able to knock it out in a couple of weeks or a month.

It is generally taken as obvious that there is nothing hidden in the four corners of the US Constitution. People don't know what's in the voluminous Lisbon treaty (as far as I understand the size of the text), and it's written in legalese. They may rationally believe the worst.

[Asher]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


We are required to learn out Constitution in school. It's nice and small, so it makes it very easy to do. That's the main problem with the proposed EU constitution. It's 400 freakin' pages. Who could learn that!?!

Relax, comrade. It's just as easy as reading laundry instructions. Just supersized.

[BeBMan]

DanS: Yeah. Though much of it is the content of various EU treaties that were taken in. But still you're right, it's absurd to make it that big.

[snoopy369]

Just write a small, easy to read constitution, and then reference the treaties, just like we did (effectively, anyway)...

[DanS]

This has always puzzled me. A constitution can take many forms. There's no law of nature dictating that the EU Constitution has to incorporate all of the minutiae.

[Hercules]

I think the people of Ireland have done Europeans a big favour.


As Ecthy says

quote:

.......so from a critically-rational point of view, the Lisbon treaty should be accepted despite its lack in democracy (my emphasis). Therein lies the nub.

There can always be hope for a future democratization of the EU institutions.


Also Thestinger has a point.

quote:
What I don't undesrtand is that given there is obvious need to reform the EU and it's procedures why does any treaty that does this also always have to increase the powers of the EU. They don't have to go hand in hand unquote.

[BeBMan]

It would have actually both strenghtened national and European parliaments. I'm far from claiming it would have removed all problems, but it had improvements in some fields. Now we're still with the old system, which doesn't improve anything.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


We are required to learn out Constitution in school. It's nice and small, so it makes it very easy to do. That's the main problem with the proposed EU constitution. It's 400 freakin' pages. Who could learn that!?!

It's required reading in school but that doesn't mean the lesson sunk in. Just the other day I was down at the bar and some guy was claiming the Federal government legally didn't have the right to tax people's incomes. I pointed out the 16th amendment and he said he never heard of it.

[OzzyKP]

So wait, the EU Constitution that was such a huge deal like 2 years ago or so that was rejected by the voters in a number of European countries is now back again but they basically just changed the rules so voters don't have to approve it?

Lame.

Go Ireland!

Btw, if you guys are having Constitution issues I'm sure we can let you borrow ours. It is the absolute best I've ever seen and we're not using it much anymore. I recommend it.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
It is the absolute best I've ever seen and we're not using it much anymore.

And how many do you have read?

[Will9]

The Europeans don't deserve our Constitution, but they are free to have the Articles of Confederation (although I'm not sure they should keep that one "Canada is a pre-approved state" bit)