Bigots and those who are not bigots but use bigoted jokes.

[DinoDoc]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sigh

Originally posted by Panag
hey , stay off that crap , vico aint good for you , use an NSAID and get either morphine or use tramadol

Vico has the Greg House seal of approval. What more of an endorsement does it need?

[Grandpa Troll]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sigh

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Vico has the Greg House seal of approval. What more of an endorsement does it need?

I heard that

I really dont want to be on pain meds, they do, as many posters here have reminded me, alter the way I act or think or talk.

It is, as they say, a necessary evile.

But, one more month until operation, then 2 weeks in a cast and 4 weeks after before I can start occupational therapy, I believe, so hopefully within 3 months I am off pain meds.

GT

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by rah
I have mixed feeling on stereotype driven jokes.

IT all comes down to how they're told. And this is quite the gray area. The intent of the teller. Don Rickles was a perfect example. He insulted everyone and it was never done with malice. He was so good at it that people would almost fight to get into the front row of his shows so he would pick on them. Rickles also made more than enough fun of himself, which really emphasised his intent. "TO BE FUNNY"

But when they're used with the intent to injure and insult a specific group out of hate, that I don't like.
Sometimes you can't always tell so where do you draw the line? It's safest to just say never do it, but Rickles was so funny I'd hate to totally eliminate it.

Well RAH I think you are being a little hypocritical here, or should I say, using selective judgement?

I don't have the links and it was so long ago it probably doesn't even exist, but let me remind you of many a situation here on Apolyton.

Eyes of Night was out here, spewing his usual venom. He accused one of our current posters of being a drug addict, another of being a thief and another of something so horrible I won't even describe, along with the 7 or 8 other cureent posters of lesser but embarassing things and about 10-15 other potential members you lost because of him.

But that was nothing. After that, he continued to gain the confidence of many a player at the time (never me). He seduced newcomers and veterans alike into what they thought were personal conversations. Then he would gleefully either cut and paste those conversations into this forum or would annotate them for us: "so and so was a drug addict" and "so and so couldnt pay his rent" and "so and so had a girlfriend that was a whore" etc etc etc.

Obviously none of this had anything to do with Civ. When I complained, do you remember what your response to me was? You told me that when you were in Vegas Don Rickles called you a WOP and you loved it.

Did you ever consider that the people who confided in Eyes (as stupid as they were) didn't love the world knowing that they had a drug problem, or that they were trying to beat a felony conviction or that they didn't want the world to know that his g/f was cheating on him etc etc etc? Well when we discussed that you basically told me that even though the rules forbid those type of personal attacks on Apoly, it was OK if Eyes did it because it was like Rickles. You told me there was a "grey line" Again you used the Rickles/Vegas comparison with me. Did you ever consider that the people who were abused by Eyes didn't agree with your "Rickles/Vegas" scenario?

RAH we have played many a game together and you usually come out on the upside. Once I get my computer fixed I hope to lose to you guys again. But, I find that last post by you almost like a PC press release. The truth is, YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE decide what they think is acceptable. Believe me, I am as thick skinned as they come. You can call me a DOUBLE WOP-NAZI-INJUN. (I'm 1/2 Italian, 1/4 German, 1/4 Navajo) and I'll tell you you are right. Then I will think to myself "If thats the best he can come up with I already know that I am smarter than him."

Now if you can come up with a good Italian/German/Am Indian joke I wanna hear it!!!!!

My point is - Don't tell me that you look over the situation then decide, "it's safer to never do it" Because as a moderator, you have embraced it. And puuleeeeaase don't tell me about the "intent of the teller." Since we all know Eyes had only one intent.

Let's be honest here. If Eyes had never personally attacked anyone but used the "N" word, he would have been banned or warned.

As you put it:

"used with the intent to injure and insult a specific group out of hate, that I don't like."

Well what if it is meant to injure a SPECIFIC PERSON. Seriously, wouldn't just about anyone be more insulted if they personally or their family were attacked rather than their racial group?

For example RAH, which would piss you off more?

a) If I called you a WOP

or

b) If I said your daughter and wife were whores.

I only bring this up because this is the sort of stuff you allowed Eyes to do on this forum. When I complained to Ming he never answered my message. When I complained to you, you told me about Rickles.

G O W I N G S! (no longer necessary)
G O P I S T O N S! (oops)
G O T I G E R S!

GO AWAY LIONS!! (just a joke I support all Detroit teams)

[Wezil]

EoN was/is a 1st class ***hole granted far too much leeway on this site.

If that personal attack gets me a ban...

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Deity Dude


Well RAH I think you are being a little hypocritical here, or should I say, using selective judgement?

I don't have the links and it was so long ago it probably doesn't even exist, but let me remind you of many a situation here on Apolyton.

Eyes of Night was out here, spewing his usual venom. He accused one of our current posters of being a drug addict, another of being a thief and another of something so horrible I won't even describe, along with the 7 or 8 other cureent posters of lesser but embarassing things and about 10-15 other potential members you lost because of him.

But that was nothing. After that, he continued to gain the confidence of many a player at the time (never me). He seduced newcomers and veterans alike into what they thought were personal conversations. Then he would gleefully either cut and paste those conversations into this forum or would annotate them for us: "so and so was a drug addict" and "so and so couldnt pay his rent" and "so and so had a girlfriend that was a whore" etc etc etc.

Obviously none of this had anything to do with Civ. When I complained, do you remember what your response to me was? You told me that when you were in Vegas Don Rickles called you a WOP and you loved it.

Did you ever consider that the people who confided in Eyes (as stupid as they were) didn't love the world knowing that they had a drug problem, or that they were trying to beat a felony conviction or that they didn't want the world to know that his g/f was cheating on him etc etc etc? Well when we discussed that you basically told me that even though the rules forbid those type of personal attacks on Apoly, it was OK if Eyes did it because it was like Rickles. You told me there was a "grey line" Again you used the Rickles/Vegas comparison with me. Did you ever consider that the people who were abused by Eyes didn't agree with your "Rickles/Vegas" scenario?

RAH we have played many a game together and you usually come out on the upside. Once I get my computer fixed I hope to lose to you guys again. But, I find that last post by you almost like a PC press release. The truth is, YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE decide what they think is acceptable. Believe me, I am as thick skinned as they come. You can call me a DOUBLE WOP-NAZI-INJUN. (I'm 1/2 Italian, 1/4 German, 1/4 Navajo) and I'll tell you you are right. Then I will think to myself "If thats the best he can come up with I already know that I am smarter than him."

Now if you can come up with a good Italian/German/Am Indian joke I wanna hear it!!!!!

My point is - Don't tell me that you look over the situation then decide, "it's safer to never do it" Because as a moderator, you have embraced it. And puuleeeeaase don't tell me about the "intent of the teller." Since we all know Eyes had only one intent.

Let's be honest here. If Eyes had never personally attacked anyone but used the "N" word, he would have been banned or warned.

As you put it:

"used with the intent to injure and insult a specific group out of hate, that I don't like."

Well what if it is meant to injure a SPECIFIC PERSON. Seriously, wouldn't just about anyone be more insulted if they personally or their family were attacked rather than their racial group?

For example RAH, which would piss you off more?

a) If I called you a WOP

or

b) If I said your daughter and wife were whores.

I only bring this up because this is the sort of stuff you allowed Eyes to do on this forum. When I complained to Ming he never answered my message. When I complained to you, you told me about Rickles.

G O W I N G S! (no longer necessary)
G O P I S T O N S! (oops)
G O T I G E R S!

GO AWAY LIONS!! (just a joke I support all Detroit teams)

Deity Dude although the way I chose to express this was unacceptable to many, you hit it on the head, and yes to quote rah, he as a poster not a moderator or owner, felt uneasy or something like uncomfortable, IIRC, about my remarks or perhaps the way i put it.

I did in such a way as make it stick.

I dont feel in my heart superior or inferior to anyone.

My whole point of that excersise was to shed light on EXACTLY what you bring up here, selective choices by many here on what is and is not acceptable.

Who the heck is anyone here to say its ok to insult a southern white man but make a joke about a black/brown person then hell no, not accepted.

Its ok to put down a Christian, but let someone put down a homosexual and equal rights comes up as well as EEOC or such.

For the record, It is wrong and wrong is not right.

Thanks for stating as you did, for my comments about rah are not personal it is more about the community in general, why can we all own up that just because one is unacceptable shouldnt make the other acceptable.

I do love everyone here, for real, hate no one, I do not agree with everyone here and dont have to.

I look back at many many years posting here, first as Dr Danger then to troll (thanks to Apolyton's Horse) and then Grandpa Troll the first Christmas after my first grandson was born (DECEMBER 2003) and can tell you, I havent posted 36,000 posts plus because I havent enjoyed myself, quite the contrary, its just I see lots and felt it was time to state something that many here choose to selectively ignore.

Ok, party on and have a blessed day.

Gramps

[MrFun]

I pretty much said the same thing Deity said, in my OP -- for example, bigoted jokes about white Southerners is not okay just as bigoted jokes about blacks is not okay.

On other hand, maybe others see a difference because blacks have been persecuted as a minority group in United States and so to those people bigoted jokes are even worse in that context.

[MrFun]

And for all of you who whine about "political correctness" without considering that maybe we should be more respectful toward others' backgrounds and feelings, would these same whiners of "political correctness" be just as accepting about vicious, degrading jokes about, say, military veterans?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by MrFun
I pretty much said the same thing Deity said, in my OP -- for example, bigoted jokes about white Southerners is not okay just as bigoted jokes about blacks is not okay.

On other hand, maybe others see a difference because blacks have been persecuted as a minority group in United States and so to those people bigoted jokes are even worse in that context.

Yes sir

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by MrFun
And for all of you who whine about "political correctness" without considering that maybe we should be more respectful toward others' backgrounds and feelings, would these same whiners of "political correctness" be just as accepting about vicious, degrading jokes about, say, military veterans?

Mr.Fun, excellent point as well

I see now you are indeed a very thoughtful and intelligent poster

Thanks for the additional comments

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by MrFun
And for all of you who whine about "political correctness" without considering that maybe we should be more respectful toward others' backgrounds and feelings, would these same whiners of "political correctness" be just as accepting about vicious, degrading jokes about, say, military veterans?

I'd be fine with hearing jokes about veterans. However, I'm not sure if veterans display any obvious stereotypes, so I don't know if the jokes would be funny. Do you have any examples?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MrFun
And for all of you who whine about "political correctness" without considering that maybe we should be more respectful toward others' backgrounds and feelings, would these same whiners of "political correctness" be just as accepting about vicious, degrading jokes about, say, military veterans?

No. The problem is Americans. You're a bunch of lamers. For a country that is supposedly predicated upon personal freedoms, you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to control what other people say or do. Sometimes people make jokes that are in poor taste, but they were intended as jokes and not to be malicious, so end of story. Political correctness is an American creation, and encapsulates the whiny lawsuit-happy ethos of that nation. In other nations it is OK to make jokes about gays, and gay people will laugh along with everyone else. It's also OK to show nipples on television. Other countries don't have a problem with discussing or joking about homosexuality in public, because they aren't a bunch of repressed puritans.

A great deal of humour is taking things society is uncomfortable about (like race and homosexuality) and making us laugh about it. Some humour involves denigrating people of other races or orientations. They aren't the same thing at all, but there are some people who want to treat them the same way and ban them all because they find them offensive. Well, you don't have a right not to be offended. What you need to do in these situations is grow the **** up and get hard. If you are too easily offended, it is your fault and not anyone else's. Stop trying to wrap society in foam rubber because you have a problem with everything.

The video is an advertisement for the New Zealand gay community's premier yearly event. As you can see, gay New Zealanders have a sense of humour and love to make jokes themselves. That's because they are normal human beings. They don't need some pissant Americans telling them what to think, feel or say.

[Lorizael]

God ****ing dammit! I hate when Agathon is on my side of an argument. He's such an ignorant little ****. Now I have to take up the other side.

Insults are bad, people. Don't insult anybody ever. It's never okay. Yeah.

[Japher]

Why? You don't think I can take it?!

Jerk

[Wezil]

That video clip is hilarious.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Lorizael
God ****ing dammit! I hate when Agathon is on my side of an argument. He's such an ignorant little ****. Now I have to take up the other side.

You just need to accept that I am your master!!!! ha ha ha ha hic...