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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ramo
    I didn't ask that. Will you answer my actual question?
    What is the acutal question?
    Originally posted by Ramo
    Do you know an actual Muslim who says these ridiculous things that you're attributing to them?
    I tought you wanted me to attibute the quote.

    Again you have provided no logical loophole for Obama not being an apostate Muslim in the eyes of the law.
    Last edited by Heraclitus; May 30, 2008, 06:24.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Comment

    • #32
      Originally posted by Heraclitus
      The 20th century theologian Abul Ala Maududi

      one person's claim doesn't make it true.


      I'm going to end this discussion, it's not going to get us anywhere.
      The point I wanted to make is that it is so silly for us westerners to claim that we know what's in the Sharia and what's not, let alone we have even the basic understanding of it's interpretations.
      What reaches the western media, and thus the western populace, is the extremists views, or at best the views that seem the most different from us.
      It's pointless for the two of us to discuss what is the true interpretation of the Qu'ran, sharia or hadith.

      Obama's supposed Muslim heritage will NOT have any significant impact on his acceptance (or lack thereof) in the islamic world.
      "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
      "I don't like laws all over the world. Doesn't mean I am going to do anything but post about it."Jon Miller

      Comment

      • #33
        Originally posted by germanos
        I'm going to end this discussion, it's not going to get us anywhere.
        I'm sorry you don't have the authority to do so. Unless you are a mod and I am not aware of you being one.
        Last edited by Heraclitus; May 30, 2008, 06:25.
        Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
        The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
        The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

        Comment

        • #34
          Originally posted by germanos


          one person's claim doesn't make it true.
          Sayyid Abul A'la Maududi (Urdu: ابو الاعلى مودودی; alternative spellings of last name Maudoodi, and Mawdudi) (September 25, 1903(1903-09-25) - September 22, 1979),[1] also known as Mawlana (Maulana) or Sheikh Sayyid Abul A'la Mawdudi, was a Sunni Pakistani journalist, theologist and political philosopher, and is considered an influential 20th century Islamic thinker.
          Well I suppose a an improtant Islamic thinker and an educate theologian must have no clue about what the state of Islamic theoloy. Surley he is a construct of the fearmongering Western media.

          Listen I will discuss this in more detali latert, I have an exam in three hours and need to study, currently I'm trapped in this mindset:




          and need to get out of it.
          Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
          The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
          The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

          Comment

          • #35
            Originally posted by Heraclitus


            I'm sorry you don't have the authority to do so. Unless you are a mod and I am not aware of you being one.
            "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
            "I don't like laws all over the world. Doesn't mean I am going to do anything but post about it."Jon Miller

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by germanos




              Yes I know, its hilarious isn't it? Especialy the original text only delivery.
              Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
              The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
              The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

              Comment

              • #37

                What is the acutal question? I tought you wanted me to attibute the quote.

                Again you have provided no logical loophole for Obama not being an apostate Muslim in the eyes of the law.
                You speak of Islamic jurispudence is a unitary thing. It isn't. Your Qur'an quote, for instance, is considered to be a bad English translation and is devoid of context (the punishment was referring to political treason).

                Once again, even in conservative circles of Islamic jurispudence, the fact that Obama's father abandoned him gives his mother, a non-Muslim, religious jurisdiction.

                And I stated my question multiple times:
                Again, do you personally know any Muslim who believes this nonsense? As in have talked with a person, and they told you that Obama is an apostate. And that apostates should be killed?
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

                Comment

                • #38
                  [QUOTE\] Originally posted by Ramo

                  Once again, even in conservative circles of Islamic jurispudence, the fact that Obama's father abandoned him gives his mother, a non-Muslim, religious jurisdiction.

                  [QUOTE]

                  The question is whether what he did would be considered abandoning him or just going back to his other wife who lives elsewhere?

                  Also on a second note don't forget his stepfather was also a Muslim which may give jurisdiction to him.
                  Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                  The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                  The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    No, it doesn't.

                    Will you answer my question?
                    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                    -Bokonon

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Ramo

                      You speak of Islamic jurispudence is a unitary thing.
                      Never did something like that, there are several dissenting voices (mostly medeival scholars) who dissagre with interpreting apostasy as equivalent to treason.

                      But the wast majority of Muslims living today agree with this.


                      Even European second generation Muslims have a large procentage (30% to 40%) that think apostates should be killed. Even if we take the low (30%) that is an incredibly high number for a western society.
                      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Ramo
                        No, it doesn't.
                        How do you know? Are you a legal expert? If you are I conceed but point out that fundamentalists disagree with classical interpretations which they see as currupted.
                        Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                        The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                        The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ramo

                          Will you answer my question?
                          No I don't know any muslims that think that but what relevance does this have? I only know one Muslim and he dosen't even practice the religion anymore.
                          Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                          The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                          The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            Theben (and/or anybody else):

                            If you haven't seen these, here are a few possible informative links:

                            Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

                            Google: http://www.google.com/search?client=...utf-8&oe=utf-8

                            of which I found the following the most relevant for your question on the actual influence it might have: http://www.google.com/search?client=...utf-8&oe=utf-8
                            "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
                            "I don't like laws all over the world. Doesn't mean I am going to do anything but post about it."Jon Miller

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              BTW: is there a significant difference between 'apostacy' and 'coversion' in English? If so: what?
                              "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
                              "I don't like laws all over the world. Doesn't mean I am going to do anything but post about it."Jon Miller

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by germanos
                                Theben (and/or anybody else):

                                If you haven't seen these, here are a few possible informative links:

                                Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

                                Google: http://www.google.com/search?client=...utf-8&oe=utf-8

                                of which I found the following the most relevant for your question on the actual influence it might have: http://www.google.com/search?client=...utf-8&oe=utf-8
                                Didn't you say you where getting out of the debate (as in putting an end to it?).

                                BTW Its good that you have posted the wiki article.
                                Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                                The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                                The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                                Comment

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