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  • New Holocaust Memorial Unveiled in Berlin

    New Holocaust Memorial for Gay Victims

    Monument to Homosexual Holocaust Victims Opens in Berlin
    The controversy over the monument to homosexual Holocaust victims has dragged on for years. On Tuesday, however, it is finally being unveiled in Berlin. Still, not all disagreements have been set aside.

    After years of controversy, a monument to homosexual victims of the Holocaust is finally opening in Berlin.

    Germany's federal commissioner for culture, Bernd Neumann, is to formally open the monument Tuesday together with Berlin Mayor Klaus Wowereit. The monument consists of a single stele or pillar, 3.6 meters (11.8 feet) high and 1.90 meters (6.2 feet) wide, located in Berlin's central Tiergarten park opposite the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe (more...).


    PHOTO GALLERY: BERLIN REMEMBERS GAY HOLOCAUST VICTIMS
    Click on a picture to launch the image gallery (5 Photos)

    According to the monument's designers, the Berlin-based Norwegian-Danish artist duo Ingar Dragset and Michael Elmgreen, the new monument refers to the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe, which consists of 2,711 concrete stelae, while simultaneously representing a different history of persecution. "We wanted to use the same visual language (as the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe) in order to make the connection between our monument and other victim groups," Dragset told the Berlin magazine Zitty in an interview. "It was the same suffering, the same history, but at the same time there were many differences."

    A video screen set into the monument shows a one-and-a-half minute film loop of two men kissing. Visitors can watch the film, directed by the Danish director Thomas Vinterberg who is best known for his acclaimed 1998 drama "The Celebration," through a small window in the pillar. The film will be changed every two years, with the monument showing homosexuality-themed films by different directors.

    A plaque on the monument explains the history of the Nazi persecution of homosexuals and draws the visitor's attention to the current persecution of homosexuals in many countries. "In many parts of the world people are still persecuted because of their sexual identity, homosexual love is a criminal offense and a kiss can spell danger," the text reads.

    The German government commissioned the monument, which cost €600,000 ($950,000) to build, in 2003. Right from the start, the monument, which was an initiative of the Lesbian and Gay Federation in Germany (LSVD), attracted controversy. Some critics, warning of "monument inflation," questioned the need for a separate monument for gay victims of the Holocaust, while lesbian groups criticized the focus on male homosexual victims. In response to their concerns, the monument is likely to show a film featuring lesbians in the future.

    Even the opening of the monument attracted controversy. Dragset and Elmgreen told Zitty that Neumann, the federal commissioner for culture, refused to allow an image from the video of the two men kissing to be put on the official invitation to the monument's opening. "(The decision) not to print the kiss shows that we still have a problem," Dragset said. "As long as people feel repulsed when they see homosexuals kissing, then something is missing," added Elmgreen, who called the kiss "the basis of the monument."


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    Observers have also been critical of the fact that the highest representative of the German government attending the opening will be the federal commissioner for culture. Germany's President Horst Köhler, who was present at the opening of the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe, will not be attending.

    According to estimates, more than 50,000 homosexuals were arrested by the Nazis. It is not known how many were murdered in concentration camps, but estimates put the figure at several thousand at least. Gay rights activists have long complained that the persecution of homosexuals during the Third Reich has been overlooked. The Nazi-era law persecuting homosexuals remained on Germany's books until 1969.
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

  • #2
    I don't understand why each group has to put up different memorials. The same people murdered them. It's not like a mass grave or something.
    It should be united. Neither do I see the point of this one rotating gay sex as it's theme.
    You know, I don't have a problem with gays, OTHER than, I don't know the words to say it well.
    I think your focus is way too narrow. Gays HAVE to focus on the sex. Died? Who cares? We're here for the sex art change. Do you see what I'm saying at all?
    It may sound, I don't know how it may sound. To me, it makes sense.

    At any rate, if gays want this, and got it, good for you.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

    Comment


    • #3
      This thread dosen't sound very fun.
      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SlowwHand
        I don't understand why each group has to put up different memorials. The same people murdered them. It's not like a mass grave or something.
        It should be united. Neither do I see the point of this one rotating gay sex as it's theme.
        You know, I don't have a problem with gays, OTHER than, I don't know the words to say it well.
        I think your focus is way too narrow. Gays HAVE to focus on the sex. Died? Who cares? We're here for the sex art change. Do you see what I'm saying at all?
        It may sound, I don't know how it may sound. To me, it makes sense.

        At any rate, if gays want this, and got it, good for you.
        It probably has something to do with gays and lesbians having been ignored and unwritten about, in the history of the Holocaust whereas other groups, such as Jews (THE most prominent group of Holocaust victims) had always had sufficient coverage in Holocaust history.
        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MrFun


          It probably has something to do with gays and lesbians having been ignored and unwritten about, in the history of the Holocaust whereas other groups, such as Jews (THE most prominent group of Holocaust victims) had always had sufficient coverage in Holocaust history.
          What are you talking about we had you guys in our textbooks next to Gypsies and Slavs as several of the groups composing the other 6 million killed in the holocaust.
          Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
          The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
          The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Heraclitus


            What are you talking about we had you guys in our textbooks next to Gypsies and Slavs as several of the groups composing the other 6 million killed in the holocaust.
            Something like one or two sentences?
            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

            Comment


            • #7
              You know why they murdered gays? Have you ever seen, or can you imagine, this is going to sound bad, I know, a stereotypical limp wristed gay (which yes, I know not all are, by any means. Wittlich comes to mind, for instance. I mean like starchild, and not meanly) doing a Nazi salute?
              Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
              "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
              He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MrFun


                Something like one or two sentences?

                There was like one page about the Holocaust. The Jews got mentioned in like once or twice. They where identifed as a primary target but by far not the only one. Most of the entry covered where the camps where, what where the reasons each group was targeted, how the Germans attempted to conceal this from red cross officials, ect. There was even a pic of a starved dude wearing the prisoner uniform and having a pink triangle. There was one pic of hoarded dead bodies, but it didn't say they where jewish or not. There was a pic of Polish Jews getting on a train.


                Over here the Holocaust has never been presented as a Jewish only thing. Perhaps because lots of Slovenians where killed in concentration camps. My grandfather on my mothers side was actually a survior of one of the camps.
                My grandfather on my dads side was forcibly conscripted into the German army and fought on the eastern front.
                Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                Comment


                • #9
                  When the Nazis occupied France, how did they differentiate homosexuals from ordinary French men? It must have been hard.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Exactly. The French were nodded off from the wine. The gays weren't.
                    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Guys I don't think that kind of humour is appropriate. Unless we do Jewish Holocaust jokes too.
                      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bashing French people is always appropriate.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well-said, Riesstiu.
                          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hitler and Goering were arguing about the Jews, Goering stating that they were quite clever people and Hitler vehemently denying they were any such thing.

                            Finally Goering told Hitler that they should go out in the city and Goering would show Hitler it was true. Hitler agreed, so they disguised themselves and went out on the street.

                            Goering took Hitler into a shop, went up to the counter, and asked the clerk: "Do you have any left-handed teacups?" The clerk stared at Goering for a moment and then said no, mein herr, I do not.

                            The two left with Hitler complaining that he did not understand what the point of this was and Goering telling him to be patient. They went to another shop and Goering gave the same act: "Do you have any left-handed teacups?" The clerk stared and shrugged his shoulders.

                            They left with Hitler becoming incensed over this nonsense and Goering begging for patience. Finally they went into a Jewish shop; Goering again asked the clerk: "Do you have any left-handed teacups?"

                            The clerk smiled graciously, went into the back room and made a show of rummaging around, brought out a saucer and teacup, set down the saucer, and carefully placed the cup with the handle pointed so Goering could pick it with his left hand. "There you are, mein herr!" the clerk said.

                            Goering bought the teacup, thanked the clerk, and the two men left. Goering turned to Hitler and said: "See, I told you the Jews were very clever people."

                            "I don't see what was so clever about that," Hitler snapped. "He just happened to have one in stock!"
                            Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                            The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                            The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                            Comment


                            • #15




                              Well at least we know what Hitler was playing with as a kid...

                              those evil Danes
                              Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                              The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                              The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                              Comment

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