Interpol: FARC files real

[Felch]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Nor did I claim the hard drives were damaged. What I said is that the computers were completely undamaged in a scene where everything else was destroyed.

I don't know what kind of weapons were used against the camp, nor the quantity. It's possible that a small laptop would survive some types of bombs, if it had some cover and was out of the way.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Felch
Of course not. FARC's been busy murdering and kidnapping candidates they disagree with for decades.

Quick question - what is it about Betancourt that your comrades found so vile they couldn't resist the urge to kidnap her and hold her in the jungle for years?

If FARC and the ELN were out of the picture, Colombia still would not be anything more than a formal democracy. The vast majority of political killings are carried out by the government or it's paramilitary allies. Not even twenty years ago, the entire electoral left was butchered by the government. The Colombian government is one of the most evil on Earth. Were it not for the U.S., it would have been abolished by its own people long ago.

I suspect what they have against Betancourt is that she is a representative of the most murderous government in all of the Americas.

[Felch]

The most murderous government in all of the Americas couldn't hold a candle to Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, or the NSDAP. It seems you're more likely to be murdered by a socialist government than a right wing regime.

These must be the Colombians who would have abolished their own government long ago.

I might find reason to dispute the Americas number even. Anybody have reliable figures on Cuban government killings versus Colombian?

[chequita guevara]

You go ahead and try and compare them to Cuba. Why don't you add in Nicaragua as well. You might get one year's worth of Colombia's killings. In any event, I wasn't including ex-regimes. Guatemala is still the country to beat in the Americas, having killed over 200,000 of its own people.

As for being deliberately murdered by a government, Nazi Germany still holds the record. The Soviet archives have been opened, and while Stalin certainly killed a lot of people, or caused them to die because of his policies, it doesn't come close to the Nazis. Mao's China might, but there is no reliable data on how many people died in the Great Leap Forward or the Cultural Revolution. But again, we're talking about policies, not deliberate murder.

Also, while the death tolls for socialist states invariably include those who die from famine, capitalist states are always excused from the same. According to the 2007 State of the World's Mothers report, 12 million children a year under the age of five die from easily preventable causes. The vast majority of those children live in the capitalist world. Our death toll over eighty years doesn't even match a decade of yours.

[Patroklos]

The vast majority of political killings are carried out by the government or it's paramilitary allies

In any case, the beauty of democratic institutions is that the government of today is not the government of 20 years ago. FARC, however, is still FARC.

I love your periodic defense of such organizations Che, it serves as a reminder of exactly what you are.

[chequita guevara]

Patty, why don't you contribute to this thread when you know what you're talking about?

[Felch]

Easily preventable causes is not the same as "The government seized our food, mismanaged our economy, shut down newspapers that complained, executed politicians who criticized the policies, and now we're starving." It probably includes diarrhea and insect borne diseases. Those are bad, but have more to do with poverty than anything else.

There is no better engine for creating wealth than capitalism. So if poverty is what's killing you, the left ain't going to help.

Also note that not all the world is capitalist or communist. Some is just not developed enough for either. I'd wager that most of those 12 million are occurring in countries that don't have any real government. Anarchy isn't the same thing as capitalism. We need the police to shoot the workers who go on strike.

Capitalists kill because we want to live in a nice big house, with a beautiful blond wife, and drive Beemers. Commies kill because they're jealous of our houses, women, and cars.

[Patroklos]

Patty, why don't you contribute to this thread when you know what you're talking about?

You are defending FARC Che.

Let me repeat that. YOU ARE DEFENDING FARC CHE!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Felch
Easily preventable causes is not the same as "The government seized our food, mismanaged our economy, shut down newspapers that complained, executed politicians who criticized the policies, and now we're starving." It probably includes diarrhea and insect borne diseases. Those are bad, but have more to do with poverty than anything else.

Death by easily preventable reasons was abolished in the USSR, China, and Cuba. If the government has the will to do it, it can be done. The number one cause of death in the world is diarrhea from the common cold. For a few pennies per person, it can be stopped. The Communists did it. Why can't the capitalists?

BTW, did you know the Cuba has the highest percentage of centigenarians in the world. Hmmm.

There is no better engine for creating wealth than capitalism. So if poverty is what's killing you, the left ain't going to help.

Poverty is part and parcel of capitalism. You can't have capitalism without massive poverty.

Also note that not all the world is capitalist or communist. Some is just not developed enough for either.

Wrong. Nearly the whole world is capitalist, with Cuba being the lone exception. Capitalism doesn't equal wealth. It equals private property plus production for the market. Even in the remotest African villages or highest Himalayan valleys, capitalism is the dominant mode of existence.

I'd wager that most of those 12 million are occurring in countries that don't have any real government.

Capitalism isn't a system of government.

Anarchy isn't the same thing as capitalism.

Tell that to the libertarians.

We need the police to shoot the workers who go on strike.

That's a joke, right?

Capitalists kill because we want to live in a nice big house, with a beautiful blond wife, and drive Beemers. Commies kill because they're jealous of our houses, women, and cars.

No, we kill because when we try and make a better world, people like you try and **** it all up and kill us.

So, there were tens of thousands of Nazi sympathizers in the U.S. before WWII. Were they right simply because they existed. Also, a lot of those signers aren't Colombian.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos


You are defending FARC Che.

Let me repeat that. YOU ARE DEFENDING FARC CHE!

And you are defending the most murderous government in the hemisphere. Between the two of us, that puts me on the side of the angels.

[Patroklos]

Please point out where I defended the Columbian government. Thanks.

Also, please explain how the popular, democratic government of today is the same as that of 20 years ago. Thanks.

Attacking one party does not an automatic defense of the other make.

[Patroklos]

Che's imaginary verison of FARC:



Go on Che, take a flight over there, she's waiting for you...

[Felch]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
[Q]

We need the police to shoot the workers who go on strike.

That's a joke, right?

Communist scientists have discovered "humor."

Marvelous breakthrough, we all congratulate you.

[Patroklos]

No, we kill because when we try and make a better world, people like you try and **** it all up and kill us.

It is not "us" Che, you are not a commie revolutionary. You live in, work for, and benefit from the capitalist system you so despise. Everything you have, EVERYTHING, is because of capitalism. Enjoy.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Please point out where I defended the Columbian government. Thanks.

Also, please explain how the popular, democratic government of today is the same as that of 20 years ago. Thanks.

Attacking one party does not an automatic defense of the other make.

In a dual system, opposing one makes you a de facto supporter of the other.

Show how the government of Colombia today is different than it was twenty or even forty or fifty years ago. They've had elections the whole time. It hasn't been a dictatorship since 1958. With a turnout of 45% in the last presidential election, you can hardly call it popular.