WTF is wrong with Rev. Wright?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

You don't know what you're talking about. There is really nothing I can do to convince you that your memory is incorrect, but here goes:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLI...campaign.wrap/

Not even close. If you want to argue that both sides get equal treatment, then go ahead. Those of us actually in possession of our faculties know different. I watched those campaigns. I don't remember scream treatment.

Obama is being smeared as a black militant, and too many of the media are going along with it by "reporting the story", which is a non-story since Obama is clearly not a black militant.

In some ways it would be better if Obama lost because of it. Too many black Americans still think that it is possible for them to get a fair deal in the US. If he wins they will probably keep believing that, even though it isn't true.

And Farrakhan is not the man he is made out to be. Sure, he's said some unwise things, but so has Pat Buchanan.

[Kuciwalker]

People make out Pat Buchanan as a crazy too.

[MrFun]

There are nutjobs at both ends of the political spectrum. Wright is a nutjob, and Buchanan is a nutjob.


NEXT!

[Berzerker]

Buchanan is an insightful commentator, and he's not very partisan...

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Buchanan is an insightful commentator, and he's not very partisan...

I know. I actually like him although I disagree with him. His great virtue is that he actually says what he thinks, even if it is fairly nuanced, and I've seen him be respectful of his opponents in debate. He's the opposite of the school of Coulter and Hannity. At least Buchanan's ideas are his own and arrived at by his own process of reasoning.

The comparison with Farrakhan was in regard to the Hitler smears. Both Farrakhan and Buchanan have mentioned things that were true about Hitler that were then used to smear them as Nazi sympathizers, which is true in neither case. I have a lot less respect for Farrakhan than for Buchanan, but both of them at least deserve not to be misrepresented in the press, as does Reverend Wright.

It's also no coincidence that all three tend to speak freely about Israel. The cynic in me says that their controversial views would attract no heat if they were ardent Zionists.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Imran, do you have a quote from Wright saying Zionism is a gutter religion or was that an assumption?

It's in the OP. Wright is defending Farrakhan's calling Zionism a gutter religion by saying the UN, President Carter, and Desmond Tutu agree as well:

Louis said 20 years ago that Zionism, not Judaism, was a gutter religion. He was talking about the same thing United Nations resolutions say, the same thing now that President Carter's being vilified for and Bishop Tutu's being vilified for. And everybody wants to paint me as if I'm anti-Semitic because of what Louis Farrakhan said 20 years ago. He is one of the most important voices in the 20th and 21st century; that's what I think about him. . . . Louis Farrakhan is not my enemy. He did not put me in chains, he did not put me in slavery, and he didn't make me this color.

And btw, DD is correct in this matter. It isn't picky side issues, but the whole world view that 'Zionism' is a religion. I guess, though, its a way to go against Judaism without saying you are.

[PLATO]

Louis Farrakhan is not my enemy. He did not put me in chains, he did not put me in slavery, and he didn't make me this color.

Never knew Wright was a slave...damn he must be old.

[Arrian]

I'm having trouble getting past the nuttery of thinking AIDS was created by the US government to hurt black people. That's nuts enough, without even getting into the nuances of his thoughts on Farrakhan, or the nuances of Farrakhan's beliefs.

Obama has already done some damage control on this issue, but I think he'll have to do more.

I voted for the guy in the primary. I don't believe that if Wright is crazy, Obama is therefore crazy (guilt by association). Both right and left have their nutbags, including people who may have (or have had in the past) the ear of the candidates.

I'd prefer that Obama were not associated with this guy, but then I'd prefer that McCain hadn't sucked up to the religious right post-2000. They're crazy too, IMO. There is, unfortunately, no perfect candidate.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't believe that if Wright is crazy, Obama is therefore crazy

Neither do I, but I do think Obama is going to have to say something on the insinuation by Wright that Obama shares these beliefs, he's just not saying them because he's a politician and trying to get elected (I mean, really, WTF Rev. Wright?!)

[Arrian]

Setting aside the political wisdom (or rather lack thereof) of the pastor's opinions...

Wright praised Louis Farrakhan, defended the view that Zionism is racism, accused the United States of terrorism, repeated his view that the government created the AIDS virus to cause the genocide of racial minorities, stood by other past remarks ("God damn America") and held himself out as a spokesman for the black church in America.

Take out the AIDS thing and... well... yeah.

Zionism (or at the least some of the strands of Zionism) is pretty sketchy when you get right down to it. "Gutter religion" is an odd turn of phrase, however, and suggests jew-hating, not just anti-zionism.

The US did indeed support terrorism. That's a fact.

AIDS, like I said, that's nutty.

"God Damn America!" ... I'd like to know the full context of that, but I have to say that I find the phrase (and song, ugh) "God Bless America" that is repeated ad naseum to be irritating myself. It smacks of self-righteousness, and if one happens to ponder our faults for a bit, it gets a little bit sickening. If one is discussing US support of death squads in Central/South America, for instance, perhaps "God Damn America" is a fair conclusion.

That being said, it's no better than a righty arguing that America should be punished for tolerating gays (for instance). The common theme? Oh, right, religion. God's law > Man's law/policy.

As for the last bit - claiming to speak for "the Black Church" ... I rather doubt he is quite that influential. If he is, it's both sad and alarming. Imagine a large percentage of Americans believing something that is clearly false! How awful! Can you believe how many people still think Saddam was behind 9/11? Oh, wait...

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I don't believe that if Wright is crazy, Obama is therefore crazy

Neither do I, but I do think Obama is going to have to say something on the insinuation by Wright that Obama shares these beliefs, he's just not saying them because he's a politician and trying to get elected (I mean, really, WTF Rev. Wright?!)

Yeah, that's really, really bad. Like I said, more damage control is needed. Unfortunately, this time Obama's going to have to argue (persuasively) against his pastor. He's gonna have to say, forcefully, that he doesn't believe in the AIDS conspiracy theory, that he doesn't think that God should damn America, etc.

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Arrian
I don't believe that if Wright is crazy, Obama is therefore crazy (guilt by association).

Out of interest, would you subject your kids to Wright's sermons for well over a decade if you didn't on some level agree with them?

[Arrian]

Now we get to the part where we define "on some level."

Does "on some level" mean that he agrees with Wright that black Americans have generally gotten a raw deal and that US foreign policy has often been seriously ****ed up?

Or does "on some level" mean that he agrees that AIDS was created to harm brown people?

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

Does "on some level" mean that he agrees with Wright that black Americans have generally gotten a raw deal and that US foreign policy has often been seriously ****ed up?

I'm fairly certain that you can find a sane pastor expressing those views, Arrian. We're talking about a man that can not seem to help saying crazy ****. On some level in this case means agreeing with the type of sentiments expressed in the AIDS comment.

[PLATO]

At some point, I think we all want to know why Obama has been attending this church for twenty years. Okay...no guilt by association, but twenty years? Surely there is eithier more to Rev Wright than we know......or more to Obama than we know.