US Truckers plan to start strike today over high gas prices.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Not as long as we let them get away with keeping prices high anyway.

Your belief that the individual consumer has significant power in this relationship is extremely naive.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Kidicious

So you think the trucking companies are going to take the hit? How is that?

No I don't think they will take the hit. They pass on the higher fuel costs. You and I will take the hit.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Um, no. Maybe in a communist country this is true. In a capitalist country, companies exist to make a profit. The service and the other things are how they make a profit.

Bull****. In a DEMOCRACY the purpose of corporations is to benefit society. The fact that they make profit is only a benefit to the share holders. Society is not concerned with the amount of profit that shareholders make except where the law is concerned. That's why we have regulations, to make corporations operate in a fashion that is beneficial to society. You might be thinking of some authoritarian capitalist nightmare where corporations only have a duty to themselves and exist merely to make profit.

Profits aren't outrageous innately, they just are. The outrage is generated by you and your ilk; you tell me why you consider them outrageous.

Even the corporations admitted they were hurting consumers. That's outrageous when even they can not deny it.

I presume it doesn't happen because truckers are, by and large, independent, and don't organize very well. I suspect large trucking companies DO this (or just run their own small gas company).

Yes, amazing that people like truckers aren't able to organize. Amazing that they have to pay the cost of oil corporations making profit. You don't think taht has anything to do with capitalism though do you?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by snoopy369


Your belief that the individual consumer has significant power in this relationship is extremely naive.

WTF?! Are you nuts? I certainly don't believe that. If I did I just might believe in capitalism.

[EternalSpark]

I was reading something that said that while the profits from "Big Oil" are huge, their profit margins are actually really small - less than 10%.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kidicious


WTF?! Are you nuts? I certainly don't believe that. If I did I just might believe in capitalism.

Then how do you believe we will stop letting them get away with high prices? Armed resistance?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by snoopy369

I presume it doesn't happen because truckers are, by and large, independent, and don't organize very well. I suspect large trucking companies DO this (or just run their own small gas company).

That is exactly it. This is the same reason this "strike" won't succeed in the way they would like it to.

Even if they were to have a national gas card/contract for lower fuel prices it wouldn't solve their problem. Getting a few cents per litre (sorry) reduction doesn't really help when they are already 5-10 cents per litre past their breaking point.

Yes, the larger fleets and companies already have dedicated fuel cards for their trucks and do get a reduced rate currently. Smaller fleets and companies that are more centrally based (not all over the continent) often have their own fuel depots. I mentioned earlier how it was becoming impossible for independents to compete...

[SlowwHand]

Well, driver's do have to pay before pumping gas these days. A direct result of people driving off over high prices. It wasn't armed robbery, but it was still theft.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by snoopy369


Then how do you believe we will stop letting them get away with high prices? Armed resistance?

It's starts with your brain. Start thinking right.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Bull****. In a DEMOCRACY the purpose of corporations is to benefit society. The fact that they make profit is only a benefit to the share holders. Society is not concerned with the amount of profit that shareholders make except where the law is concerned. That's why we have regulations, to make corporations operate in a fashion that is beneficial to society. You might be thinking of some authoritarian capitalist nightmare where corporations only have a duty to themselves and exist merely to make profit.

Corporations exist to make a profit. They don't exist in a vaccuum, and therefore things like corporate responsibility exist - but even then, it contributes to higher profits, in that people are more likely to buy stuff from a company they think is 'nice and fluffy'.

Society regulates companies, and taxes them, BECAUSE companies exist to make profits, and therefore need laws forcing them to do things good for society, like pay wages, support civic improvements (taxes), OSHA, etc.

Democracy, by the way, has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with it. Democracy is how we elect our representatives and select our laws; there's nothing to say a democracy has to be any given economic system. You can have a democratic mercantilist society, a democratic capitalist society, a democratic communist society (at least in some definitions of communism), or a democratic feudal economy (in theory). It might be more likely to have one or the other under a democracy, but it's not an inevitable consequence.

Yes, amazing that people like truckers aren't able to organize. Amazing that they have to pay the cost of oil corporations making profit. You don't think taht has anything to do with capitalism though do you?

No, I think it has to do with truckers being independent types who don't organize well. Organizing is very effective in capitalism when done thoroughly by people committed to the organization; truckers don't necessarily fit into that mentality, though. Hence why they became truckers

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wezil


No I don't think they will take the hit. They pass on the higher fuel costs. You and I will take the hit.

Trucking companies are still going to take a hit. You can only pass on so much of your additional costs. It's just like taxes.

[Wezil]

And fuel costs are only a portion of the total cost of shipping. That component of the price will rise with the cost of fuel.

Our firm charges for travel and we are charging more per km to reflect the increasing costs. Our retainer stayed the same.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Wezil


That is exactly it. This is the same reason this "strike" won't succeed in the way they would like it to.

Even if they were to have a national gas card/contract for lower fuel prices it wouldn't solve their problem. Getting a few cents per litre (sorry) reduction doesn't really help when they are already 5-10 cents per litre past their breaking point.

Yes, the larger fleets and companies already have dedicated fuel cards for their trucks and do get a reduced rate currently. Smaller fleets and companies that are more centrally based (not all over the continent) often have their own fuel depots. I mentioned earlier how it was becoming impossible for independents to compete...

I think you could get it well past a few cents a litre. The volume that you are talking is enough that, if they actually got fully organized, I think you could end up having significant price competition for their business, quite possibly 30-40 cents per gallon off (but admittedly i'm just pulling that out of my rear). It would be at least worth a try, I'd think ... it's always surprised me that truckers didn't get special rates, after all their business is quite substantial, and the power of the CB Radio ("BREAKER BREAKER ONE TWO THREE, BP IN NASHVILLE ON ROUTE 159 OFF THE PIKE HAS DIESEL FOR 2.90 A GALLON FOR TRUCKERS, OVER") could bring quite a bit of business...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by snoopy369

Corporations exist to make a profit. They don't exist in a vaccuum, and therefore things like corporate responsibility exist - but even then, it contributes to higher profits, in that people are more likely to buy stuff from a company they think is 'nice and fluffy'.

Society regulates companies, and taxes them, BECAUSE companies exist to make profits, and therefore need laws forcing them to do things good for society, like pay wages, support civic improvements (taxes), OSHA, etc.

Democracy, by the way, has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with it. Democracy is how we elect our representatives and select our laws; there's nothing to say a democracy has to be any given economic system. You can have a democratic mercantilist society, a democratic capitalist society, a democratic communist society (at least in some definitions of communism), or a democratic feudal economy (in theory). It might be more likely to have one or the other under a democracy, but it's not an inevitable consequence.

Man you are completely ****ing brain washed! Like the RATM song "you've got a bullet in your brain, they say jump and you say how high."

You are looking at it completely from the corporations point of view. You have to look at it from societies point of view. There are certain issues that society has like what goods and services are to be produced and the quantity of those services. No one should care about how much profit companies make except to the extent that it means something to society.

You are the reason why democracy doesn't work. Your ****ing so brainwashed you can't even think.

No, I think it has to do with truckers being independent types who don't organize well. Organizing is very effective in capitalism when done thoroughly by people committed to the organization; truckers don't necessarily fit into that mentality, though. Hence why they became truckers

WTF?! If organizing is so effective then why don't people do it? You really are missing the point. The point is that prices are too high and people aren't doing anything about it. I don't care why they haven't. They just haven't.

I think you have this whole thing mixed up. See I am the communist. I criticise your system and propose a better one. You believe in capitalism. You are suppose to explain why your system is better. All you seem to be doing is explaining why it's ****ed up and you seem to want to blame me. That's ****ing nuts!

[snoopy369]

People do organize. The problem is it's not easy - it requires willingness to agree to do what other people want to do, which is not a common trait, particularly in truckers. Prisoner's dilemma and all that. I am suggesting that there is a method, inside the current system, whereby they could accomplish change; they must actually DO this, of course, and it is not 'simple' to do, because it requires work, and giving up your personal preferences for the group's good; but it is quite POSSIBLE to do, and likely the best option if they can actually do it.

I am looking at it from the corporation's point of view. That is exactly correct. I am saying that the corporation exists, itself, for the purpose of making profits. You can say that 'society should limit these profits etc.', which is perfectly fine and reasonable for you to argue. It is not, however, reasonable to suggest that the corporation exists for the purpose of making society happy; it does not. It exists to make profits. Saying "something SHOULD do something" or "something SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO do something" is one thing; saying "something EXISTS TO do something" is different, and in this case quite fallacious.