Wave of violence engulfs Iraq.

[Dinner]

An sensical person knew from the very beginning that the escalation was just a band-aid. You can use military force to suppress militias for a while and when faced with overwhelming force the gorillas will melt into local population and wait until they find a weak spot. That's what gorillas always do.

So anyway the recent wave of violence in Iraq just goes to show that the escalation, as predicted, has achieved no lasting effects. The militias are still there waiting for the day a reckoning when each group will compete for the position of head warlord. No amount of politicians posturing before the media is going to change this reality. Even if the usual suspects here desperately want to pretend other wise.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7317614.stm

[snoopy369]

I think the existence of this violence is not proof of the failure of the Surge. I think the conclusion of this violence will go a long way to determining whether the Iraqi state is becoming successful or not.

The point of the Surge was to temporarily suppress the violence such that the Iraqi state could get things together, breathe, and train its personnel to do the grunt work itself. They still need to be given rather more time to determine if they will be successful or not, in my opinion - it's not like this stuff was going to just go away.

[Zkribbler]

Doesn't this thread belong in my earlier "Battle of Basra" thread?

[Wezil]

I just wish Oerdin would post the damn articles.

Oerdin knows he and the usual suspects Patroklos are going to fight and argue over every damn word in it. It would help to have the text.

[Patroklos]

Oerdin knows he and the usual suspects Patroklos are going to fight and argue over every damn word in it. It would help to have the text.

Imagine that, one side goes on the offensive and violence increases.

UNBELIEVABLE!

[Kontiki]

Re: Wave of violence engulfs Iraq.

Originally posted by Oerdin
That's what gorillas always do.

Sometimes gorillas do this:

[Patroklos]

Sometimes gorillas do this:

Thread salvaged

[DinoDoc]

Sometimes gorillas do this:

[Dinner]

Originally posted by snoopy369

The point of the Surge was to temporarily suppress the violence such that the Iraqi state could get things together, breathe, and train its personnel to do the grunt work itself. .

The stated goal of the escalation was to give the Iraqi government "breathing room" in order to reach a formal political solution to the fundamental divides in the country. The Iraqi government has completely failed to achieve any meaningful progress on the political front. The militias are a direct result of these political failures. They always have been and they always will be.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Wezil
I just wish Oerdin would post the damn articles.

Oerdin knows he and the usual suspects Patroklos are going to fight and argue over every damn word in it. It would help to have the text.

Some people whine about posting articles. But, yes, I agree the usual suspects will avoid facts and go for non sequitor and a personal attacks. They always do.

[Zkribbler]

DD, that is the best new song I have heard in a long time.

Is that Pat Benatar's guitarist I heard playing?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Oerdin


The stated goal of the escalation was to give the Iraqi government "breathing room" in order to reach a formal political solution to the fundamental divides in the country. The Iraqi government has completely failed to achieve any meaningful progress on the political front. The militias are a direct result of these political failures. They always have been and they always will be.

They need to get security under control while they work out the politics. It's not like you can do one without the other. If they are able to - politically and militarily - handle this uprising, I think it will speak volumes for the future chances of the Iraqi state.

And if they're not able to ... the same thing.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Some people whine about posting articles.

Who? I want names!


As to the topic at hand - I agree this is kind of in the other thread already. From your BBC article however the GWB quote bugs me.

"As we speak Iraqis are waging a tough battle against militia fighters and criminals in Basra, many of whom have received arms and training and funding from Iran," he said.

He just can't say "Iran" often enough these days can he? I would like to point out a large number of Iraqi's have "received arms and training and funding from" the US.

[Patroklos]

The stated goal of the escalation was to give the Iraqi government "breathing room" in order to reach a formal political solution to the fundamental divides in the country.

That was one of the stated goals, not the stated goal. Another stated goal was to provide time for an effective Iraqi military and police force to get on its feet, which we will see soon enough whether that happened.

The Iraqi government has completely failed to achieve any meaningful progress on the political front.

Thats not at all true. Your problem is you are looking for grandiose initiatives, when in reality 99% of what a government does is the mundane nearly invisible everyday things that don't make news headlines. Granted, there are some large scale things that need to be worked out, but the reality is the Iraqi government has been working out the thousand little kinks that together matter just as much as the rest. Do your realize what an accomplishment just being able to move and support three brigades worth of forces on their own is? Do you realize what kind of ground work has to be laid for that to happen?

The militias are a direct result of these political failures. They always have been and they always will be.

Hardly, a good number of the Shia militias are just repackaged rebel groups from Saddam days.

They need to get security under control while they work out the politics. It's not like you can do one without the other.

Nore is it going to happen overnight. One of the cardinal critisims of the Oeridn clones is Bush didn't have a realistic plan on the way in. Well guess what expecting to see results 6 months to a year into an initiative still is today?

handle this uprising, I think it will speak volumes for the future chances of the Iraqi state.

Its hardly an uprising. It is an ant hill the Iraqi government kicked over itself, on purpose. That in and of itself should speak volumes as to the progress of the government.

[Q Classic]

Can't we just turn the entire region into radioactive glass, then dig for oil?

Y'know, like sensible people would.